Your Etsy Content Team at Work: UPDATE
A few weeks ago I told you about an incident regarding an Etsy seller named Doris Handmade.
Before I give you the update, here’s a recap:
Doris Handmade decides to drop in to an Etsy forum and ask for a little helpful advice:
Naturally, friendly Etsy sellers begin looking at her store, trying to figure out why her handmade journals aren’t selling.
A few people make suggestions about improving her listings or changing her prices. But when Etsy seller Rune Leather speaks up, things get interesting.
Rune Leather spotted it: Doris Handmade is a reseller. She made a fake profile pretending to be a crafter, and stocked her Etsy store with cheap, mass produced crap from China.
Not only was Doris defrauding customers, she was also using the forums to get views on her shop- two serious violations of Etsy’s Terms of Use.
When Etsy realized what was happening in the forums, they immediately took action:
That’s right, they closed the thread. Not because a reseller was spamming the forums, but because someone spoke up.
UPDATE: Rune Leather, the person who outed Doris Handmade as a fraud, has been suspended from posting in the forums.
Meanwhile, Doris Handmade’s store is still open. She put her shop in vacation mode, but Etsy hasn’t closed her down.
I look at stores we blow the whistle on, like Glitterbiscuits and KNR INC and Bliss Butterfly and Doris Handmade, and I see no action on Etsy’s part. The sellers just deactivate their listings, go on vacation, and wait it out. They’ll be back.
I used to wonder what it took to get Etsy to shut someone down. Now I know.
Usually, I take a lot of pleasure in laughing at Etsy’s bullshit. But this just makes me sad. Here’s a genuine artisan playing by the rules, doing everything right, working to uphold the dream that Etsy sold her, and she’s the one getting punished.
Someone asked me recently what it would take to solve the reseller problem on Etsy. And I said, “It would have to matter to them.” And it doesn’t. All that really matters is that you’re nice to everyone, even to the people who are undercutting your business and cheating you out of sale after sale. Because it’s much easier for Etsy to make millions of dollars on factory produced goods if you don’t embarrass them and demand accountability.
At some point, people are going to realize that Etsy is the new Wal-Mart. It’s just like any other profit driven corporation, stocking their shelves with products created by people who are barely earning a living wage.
Except at Etsy, the person making pennies an hour is you.
May 2, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Anyone have RuneLeather’s info? He or she made some bitchen items and I would love to buy one directly from him or her WITHOUT etsy getting a fat cut anyway.
May 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Oh, I see. His or her store is still open but her or she can’t comment. Still retarded.
May 2, 2011 at 2:53 pm
I wouldn’t buy from her Etsy store. Can you contact her and ask about items you love and carry out the transaction via email and paypal? Why do these assholes with their glingers and mustache mugs deserve a cut?
May 2, 2011 at 3:42 pm
we should create our own website where you can sell for free. maybe a facebook-page, since facebook doesn’t cost money?
May 2, 2011 at 3:50 pm
evacooper: http://www.evenbadgers.com
run by April’s Army members.
May 2, 2011 at 4:00 pm
And I made my first sale there today!!
evenbadgers rocks!
May 2, 2011 at 4:16 pm
I did not know evenbadgers.com existed! I like this.
May 2, 2011 at 4:24 pm
The “Join Now” button doesn’t go anywhere for me.
May 2, 2011 at 4:37 pm
I’m interested in evenbadgers too, but I can’t see anything but the home page and the join now button doesn’t work for me either.
May 2, 2011 at 6:03 pm
I’ll let the webmistress know. Sorry, guys.
May 2, 2011 at 6:05 pm
I’d also like to join Evenbadgers.com, but the “join now” button just sends me to the home page
May 2, 2011 at 6:18 pm
yeah i cant get anything at the badgers site but the few items on the home page either. very psyched to see what is up over there! idk how we’d find out when its working.
May 2, 2011 at 8:40 pm
I’ve just joined a venue called zibbet.com. So far it seems absolutely authentic and very, very nice. People very helpful. It is fairly new so they still seem committed to the ideal of handmade. From Australia. Give it a try, eh, mayt?
May 2, 2011 at 9:09 pm
I’m at Zibbet too; and just joined at Evenbadgers.
Hey Etsy!
Right here, pal!
May 2, 2011 at 11:59 pm
I just joined evenbadgers, but it sucks that I need to repost all of my items. Any chance we can get an importer on this thing?
May 3, 2011 at 9:32 am
I use Storenvy (which is free) as well as Big Cartel (has different levels, from free up to $30/mo depending on how much you list, and they DON’T take a cut) in addition to Etsy.
Honestly, I’m at the point now where I don’t want to sell on Etsy at -all- any more. Sad, too, because I like the feedback feature, and many other features on the site… but they’re really running it into the ground. Storenvy and Big Cartel are nice because they’re much more customizable and they don’t take any money; bad enough that Etsy double-dips (listing fee plus a percentage of the sale).
May 3, 2011 at 6:36 pm
I asked her about that, but she doesn’t want Etsy to go after her for “fee-dodging”. I bought a necklace from her anyway. So they get their ten pieces of silver; at least she gets some money.
June 7, 2011 at 3:57 pm
I’ve been trying to join evenbadgers, but I am not getting anywhere. I made a facebook group http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_233959359953214 for those that are in or want to be in even badgers to get together.
May 2, 2011 at 2:52 pm
I’m flat-ass broke or I’d suggest a buying frenzy in a show of solidarity. RuneLeather’s stuff is awesome and not expensive (and really, actually handmade.)
Too bad buying frenzies also put money in the Etsy coffers.
May 2, 2011 at 2:59 pm
You could always exchange paypal information directly. There ARE ways to sell outside of etsy!
May 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Let the buying frenzy begin! I have sent her a message requesting to purchase off line of Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 3:50 pm
I am also flat-ass broke, but I love the cases with the skeleton key used as a clasp. Super cool.
May 2, 2011 at 8:33 pm
And she’s raising money for Relay For Life!
May 2, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Which is precisely why I don’t have an Etsy store. I do custom knitting through a local yarn store, and to friends. And every time someone says “You should set up a store” my reaction is to remind them that websites charge fees. For pity’s sake – I am charging three dollars an hour for the stuff I make while I watch TV. If I had to pay out 15% to a website I’d be making $2.55 an hour.
May 2, 2011 at 6:36 pm
Zibbet.com is free to list, fwiw, but seems to be lacking on traffic.
May 2, 2011 at 8:43 pm
True, but it is still fairly new. They are coming out with a new build soon, so it should be even better. So far (couple of days!) I like it very much. zibbet.com Free to list, they do NOT take a cut at all and the free, basic account is sufficient for a lot of people, I think.
May 2, 2011 at 10:07 pm
Artfire is also free to list. Only the Pro membership costs, but I am a basic account and do perfectly fine.
May 2, 2011 at 4:56 pm
S/he also has a second store: http://www.etsy.com/shop/awakenjournaling
Now try to compare these items with the DorisHandmade notebooks…
May 3, 2011 at 8:29 am
I bought several of her journals last week. Too bad I didn’t think to do it off Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 9:51 pm
I think it’s crappy of Etsy, but I think it’s great that someone funny can call bullshit on a site (and get a book deal
) AND still connect true buyers with true sellers.
No snark. All Praise Regretsy!!
May 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm
You’re right. This does piss me off.
May 2, 2011 at 2:48 pm
I wonder who exploits more child and slave labor in China – Nike or Etsy?
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Niketsy. They practically have a monopoly on it.
May 2, 2011 at 3:27 pm
She did warn us… I know it’s stupid, but I’m gonna exercise my twitter account- #etsyisafraud #etsyismustachedgreed
May 2, 2011 at 3:46 pm
I emailed Etsy the following:
“I have been an Etsy seller for a long time and I have begun to see and hear of a lot of resellers on Etsy. What is worse is that I have begun to hear a LOT of talk about Etsy not upholding their own terms of service and allowing the resellers to continue to break the rules. On top of that I have heard that Etsy is censoring the people who report these incidents to you.
This has me very concerned. I began to sell here because I thought it would be a fair environment to sell my genuinely handmade goods to people who were looking for genuinely handmade goods. The idea that you might be favoring resellers based on profit margin alone has me very upset. Am I actually on the right sight? Should I close my shop and find a different place to sell? One that actually enforces their terms of service? Should I consider a class action lawsuit? I don’t know? I do know that I anxiously await a comment from Etsy as to what is really going on.”
…..
May 2, 2011 at 3:48 pm
… continued,
May I suggest that we all send Etsy an email asking them what is going on? Maybe they would take a hint if they were inundated with emails. Maybe not, but it is worth a try I think.
I will post any response I get.
May 2, 2011 at 6:52 pm
Just FYI, class action lawsuits no longer exist in the US. Thank the Supreme Court.
May 2, 2011 at 9:18 pm
To OMGitsaLisa: [citation needed]
May 2, 2011 at 11:21 pm
To Mistletoe – from the 4-27 LA Times:
The Supreme Court gave corporations a major win Wednesday, ruling in a 5-4 decision that companies can block their disgruntled customers from joining together in a class-action lawsuit. The ruling arose from a California lawsuit involving cellphones, but it will have a nationwide impact.
Full article: http://www.latimes.com/business/sc-dc-0428-court-class-action-web-20110427,0,1239412.story
May 3, 2011 at 6:05 pm
Ha, I got downvoted for delivering bad news. Really, guys?
May 2, 2011 at 7:11 pm
I sent an email, too:
Why are you allowing resellers, who are breaking YOUR OWN terms of service, to continue to resell their shoddy, mass-produced items? Doing so is doing a disservice to the true and honest artists who actually make their wonderful products by hand, those who you supposedly created the website for. Doing so takes away sales from legitimate Etsy sellers. It takes money out of their hands.
Why are you silencing people who are alerting you about these resellers with concrete evidence of their reselling? Is it because you make money off of these resellers? Is money more important to you than integrity?
When are you going to start doing your job and kicking resellers off your site instead of punishing true artists for trying to help you out?
I anxiously await your answers to these questions. I also anxiously await you to do THE RIGHT THING!
May 3, 2011 at 9:52 am
I sent an email of my own along these lines – I am just appalled that not only are they willfully ignoring their own guidelines (which I pointed out and quoted in my email), but they are doing so IN SUPPORT of a lying reseller and AT THE EXPENSE of a hardworking crafter. Come ON. Get real, Etsy.
May 3, 2011 at 9:18 pm
Reply from Etsy:
Thanks for writing in about this. I’m so sorry to hear you feel frustrated with us. I know how it feels when you come to Etsy and see items that clearly do not meet our marketplace’s criteria. While I cannot comment on any specific shops that were addressed in the forum because of our privacy policy, I can tell you about how we handle such cases.
When posting in the forums, each member needs to follow our policies for posting. Specifically according to our Do’s and Don’ts “Discussing a specific member, shop or item (either by name or with identifiable hints) in a negative way is not allowed. This is referred to as “calling out.” This is the reason the members were muted in this thread.
I work on the Content Team at Etsy. It is our job to educate sellers on our policies who may need changes or may need to have their selling privileges suspended. Sometimes their shops may appear ‘open’ but they are in fact suspended.
Continued…
May 3, 2011 at 9:19 pm
Etsy Reply continued:
In certain circumstances, the shop’s banner may still be visible, but is otherwise shut down. Since this action is taken privately, there is no external way of determining whether a shop is inactive due to a member’s choice, or because the shop has been suspended by Etsy Admin. Some shops that you may believe to actually were addressed already by our team. We don’t reveal this information, due to privacy concerns.
After learning more about our policies and how serious we feel about resellers we hope you decide to stay. We are working 7 days a week to address this issue. In fact, we are hiring 15 new people this month to help! We would be sad to see you go, so please feel free to ask me any questions, I am happy to help!
May 2, 2011 at 2:43 pm
i was wondering how long it would take Etsy to bitch slap her for it. Lord knows, we’ve seen it before. There’s a reason Etsy is continuously losing real artists to other sights.
May 2, 2011 at 2:44 pm
*Sites* I good at English.
May 2, 2011 at 3:09 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iSD9lPVY6Q&feature=bf_prev&list=PL4841C7E98D5522A8&index=55
May 2, 2011 at 3:57 pm
You beat me to that one, Tiny Giraffe! “I’m learnding!”
May 2, 2011 at 2:43 pm
So much unrequited rage I’m feeling here. Who can help these asstards own up to this madness? Somebody call Oprah!
May 2, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Sounds about right. I mean, we all did follow Alice through the looking glass didn’t we?
May 4, 2011 at 2:05 pm
You mean April, right…..
Never mind. I suck.
May 2, 2011 at 2:43 pm
This is straight up communism. I’m waiting for Etsy to pull out a cupcake cannon and start smothering people to death with fucking cake.
May 2, 2011 at 2:46 pm
I think you’re confusing communism with totalitarianism.
May 2, 2011 at 2:50 pm
In either case the complainer is shot on site.
May 2, 2011 at 2:56 pm
But communism is an economic system, and it’s the exact opposite of Etsy, which is capitalist.
May 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm
communism is a governmental system, which employs the economic system of socialism. I think OP made an okay comparison in terms of the “leaders’” hypocrisies and that they are making money of the backs of the people, and their restriction of freedom of speech.
May 2, 2011 at 6:49 pm
I thought we were an autonomous collective!
May 2, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
May 2, 2011 at 9:08 pm
Help, help! I’m being oppressed!
May 2, 2011 at 9:55 pm
“Bloody peasant”
“What a giveaway! Did you hear that?”
May 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm
The cake is a lie. Unfortunately, the smothering part is real.
May 2, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Aww, I really wanted some cake! Not mass-produced via child labor cake though, it’s too WalMart-y for my taste.
May 2, 2011 at 5:46 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI
May 2, 2011 at 8:21 pm
So, how are you holding up? Because I’M A POTATO!
May 2, 2011 at 9:08 pm
i <3 you for this. Portal 2 is awesome.
May 3, 2011 at 7:30 am
That first “Oh. It’s YOU.” moment gave me chills.
May 2, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Communism nothing. True Communism is an economic and political system where everyone is equal, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” Marx would be crying if he saw what the world has done to a well meaning (if a tad idealistic)social theory. Poor Marx, not realizing people suck. Etsy is actually capitalism in its purest form-The people that know how to market thrive, and the little fish are crushed under the heel.
May 2, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Mmmmm, you’re making me all Ayn Randy
May 2, 2011 at 8:24 pm
No fair! Now I’m picturing you looking both smug and and incredibly hot in your corset.
May 3, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Don’t even worry about it. Most of the Objectivists I know are shitty lays.
May 2, 2011 at 2:44 pm
This same thing happened to me just yesterday. I had flagged a shitty non vintage item (with 2003 printed RIGHT ON IT) three times in two weeks. Nothing. So i took it to the forums, outing the item/seller. Knickey shut me down in under ten mins. I’m just waiting to get my “you have been muted” email.
May 2, 2011 at 3:07 pm
I seriously want to bash that Knickey bitch in the face with a swarovski-encrusted baseball bat.
At this point I’m hoping she’s just a preprogrammed robot and not an actual person… Thinking of it that way quells my rage, just a little bit.
May 2, 2011 at 4:15 pm
How much do you suppose she gets paid an hour to copy and paste “Please remember not to call out in the forums”?
May 2, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Probably minimum wage, unless she’s an intern and then it’s maybe coffee and cupcakes. How’s that for irony?
May 2, 2011 at 4:23 pm
I always thought Knickey was the chicken, I heard it got promoted.
May 2, 2011 at 3:09 pm
Well it’s better than Knickey, who has no soul.
May 2, 2011 at 2:44 pm
See, I make wonderful (so I’ve been told) crocheted goods, from bags/purses to arm warmers, etc, and I was going to try selling on Etsy, but if I know there are people that won’t uphold THEIR OWN RULES, then I don’t think I want to use their forum as a marketplace for me to further my business.
May 2, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Try Zibbet.com. It’s smaller and less well-known than Etsy, but they’re a decent medium for sellers of uniquely handmade crafts. Not saying that won’t change, but at least they’re upstanding for now. That’s more than anyone can say for Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 3:08 pm
Thanks, emlemony. I’ll take a look into zibbet and see how I like it.
May 2, 2011 at 3:27 pm
i’ll have a look at that, too.
May 2, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Me too, thanks, its sad I sell more stuff at my brick and mortar store in a tiny little tourist town, at better prices, than I can on etsy. The whole reseller and third world labor cheapens the market place.
May 2, 2011 at 6:35 pm
For Australia & NZ you can try madeit.com.au – they seem okay
May 3, 2011 at 2:56 am
madeit.com.au was ALMOST a winner for me, until I found some damn CHRYSANTHEMUMS http://madeit.com.au/detail.asp?id=268025
Though it’s definitely an improvement, stuff is actually hand made, and at a good price for sellers too.
May 2, 2011 at 2:59 pm
Same with me pinkpanther, also I wouldn’t want to end up on here! Ha ha ha
May 2, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Lol, I wouldn’t be too worried if my stuff ended up on here, it would be great publicity! Like I said, I hate that other people are just resellers, and can price their stuff so low that I don’t even get the chance for my stuff to be seen!
May 2, 2011 at 3:15 pm
You may not know this but do you find that the cheaper crochet stuff is not handmade? I see this stuff that is so cheap and I know that the yarn costs more than what they’re charging. I wouldn’t sell on etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 3:28 pm
lowfatcat, that sort of thing worries me. if a cotton doiley is cheaper than the same amount of cotton, someone is losing, usually the cotton farmer.
May 2, 2011 at 3:49 pm
When I price something out, I tend to double the cost of materials, unless something was especially labor-intensive. I figure, how much material I need reflects the size of the project, therefore my pricing system seems fair. If I use 3 balls of a wool-blend yarn, at $5 a ball, I figure $30 is a fair price for a set of fingerless glove style arm warmers (they go almost to the elbow). When I see doilies, hats, arm warmers, etc, that are priced for lower than I could buy the materials, I know that person doesn’t do the work themselves, so they don’t know what it takes to create these fine pieces.
May 2, 2011 at 5:47 pm
That is how my tutors told us to price our jewellry: double up the cost of materials, add cost of labour, cost of consumables, rent, electricity and so on (of course a fraction of those, but added to every item) and then add your profit. How on earth one can compete with resellers prices?
May 2, 2011 at 7:36 pm
I triple the cost of materials and then tack on whatever seems fair to me. It’s not scientific, or even good business, but it works for me. Except when it doesn’t.
May 2, 2011 at 10:19 pm
pinkpanther8608, that’s about how I figure it too. Non-crafters (or non-crafting-you-do) sometimes really don’t know what things cost, like I’ve had people in real life be shocked when I suggested 8-10 for my braided necklaces that need 2-3 hours of constant braiding, and usually cost me about $2 in materials. For a while I thought maybe I was just overcharging but I’m glad to see that my line of thought isn’t abnormal.
May 2, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Zibbet is fantastic if you’re in the US. If you’re in the UK I’d recommend Misi for a similarly professional site. Both really great places; I’ve started selling online myself, and I can promise I will NEVER touch Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 3:26 pm
There’s also DaWanda for those of us based in Europe. Good especially for Germany and France.
May 2, 2011 at 3:55 pm
and if you live in israel? the zibbet one looks nice…
May 3, 2011 at 12:22 am
I use DaWanda as well. Fewer features than Etsy, but lower fees, and initial listings are free on their English site at the moment.
May 2, 2011 at 3:22 pm
I don’t bother with Etsy when it comes to the things I make. I’ll list (genuine) vintage all day, but handmade? No. I have better things to do than compete with factory-fresh sweatshop goods.
May 2, 2011 at 3:24 pm
Perhaps reporting them to the BBB for misrepresentation? Consumer Reports? The FDA/FTC/CIA?
May 2, 2011 at 6:42 pm
Really, WTFWhimsicleGlitter. There has got to be SOME entity that enforces this sort of misrepresentation in a business.
May 3, 2011 at 5:05 am
The BBB’s business model has changed in recent years–they are more or less fee for service, meaning that they treat the businesses being reviewed as paying customers. The result is that bad reviews are “resolved” if they pay a fee.
THe FTC is generally worried about crime. Etsy is changing its business model, and screwing over the little guy, who incidentally, made its site a good place to shop in the first place.
This is a sucky and morally bankrupt thing to do, but it’s probably not illegal. IMHO, the best way to deal with etsy’s unbelieveably underhanded practices is to continue to raise hell.
Draw attention to thier lack of sincerity and don’t let them walk away without making a @#$%ing scene. Thank you April, Army, et al.
May 2, 2011 at 7:08 pm
I would suggest the FTC.
May 2, 2011 at 8:29 pm
I get the feeling that John Stewart would LOVE to do an expose on Etsy. Its got all the whimsicle fuckery to make a great Daily Show featured report.
HK, got any friends over at Comedy Central? The Daily Show has got to have a slow news day sometime between now and the elections.
May 2, 2011 at 9:16 pm
I actually have a friend who’s an intern on the Daily Show…
May 2, 2011 at 9:20 pm
I can’t help thinking, however, that this is not that day.
May 2, 2011 at 10:24 pm
I second this motion. Perhaps we can find some way to submit the idea to them.
May 2, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Artfire’s not bad, either. If you go to EtsyBitch, they review a lot of the alternatives to Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Artfire!
May 2, 2011 at 7:24 pm
Fart ire! (I am angry, now!!)
May 2, 2011 at 4:37 pm
A couple of people have started up http://evenbadgers.com to sell stuff. No cost to set up a shop and list things. It’s still in beta-phase, but I made a sale there already.
May 2, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Yay, prynsess!
May 2, 2011 at 8:32 pm
What a coincidence, I just made my first purchase there!
And I was even sober when I did it!
May 3, 2011 at 3:59 pm
How sweet that BLHB made a sale at evenbadgers!
May 2, 2011 at 11:31 pm
My thoughts exactly.
Checking out Zibbet though, and who was responsible for this one?
http://www.zibbet.com/PIFS/artwork?artworkId=408145
I cried a glitter tear of joy.
Sorry for my basic html fail, I don’t know how to insert a link.
May 2, 2011 at 11:33 pm
Oh. Haha. I don’t really post comments, ever. Didn’t realise it’s automatic. Derp.
May 3, 2011 at 11:06 am
Yeah, we’ve seen this exact listing before, and featured on here, as the seller so proudly proclaims! When will people get it that we are here to make fun of them, and not promote them? Well, we do sometimes, but mostly we are laughing at their riducliousness. (yes, my spelling is no good!)
May 2, 2011 at 2:45 pm
I disagree: It’s not that they don’t care. They do care. They care that they get a lot more fees from resellers who list dozens or hundreds of items and keep relisting them every day. They care that resellers are more profitable to them than actual crafters or artists. We don’t stand a chance.
May 2, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Etsy should man up already and change their tagline to “your place to buy and sell all things that kinda sorta look handmade or vintage”.
May 2, 2011 at 3:06 pm
what’s the online, crafters’ equivalent of a march on Washington?
May 2, 2011 at 3:07 pm
DDOS?
May 2, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Theoretically, there are probably enough crafters in the Northeast to put together a really nice march on Etsy’s offices in Brooklyn.
May 2, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Yay! Fieldtrip!
May 2, 2011 at 4:52 pm
I’ll need a ride from Philly. I can bring eggs to throw. Multicolor, intricately decorated eggs. Well, maybe just the already cracked ones.
May 2, 2011 at 6:11 pm
I’m just one subway ride away! Let’s go!!!
May 2, 2011 at 3:21 pm
They want everyone to become Stepford Crafters. Robotic crafters that ask no questions, keep listing, and cheerfully kiss ass with their duck-face lips.
May 2, 2011 at 2:46 pm
This is why I love this site so much. Not just because the stuff is genuinely hilariously ridiculous and your commentary, which is stunning, but because you tell people what’s going on. Etsy might not give a crap, but people who see this and have functioning brains will realise what’s going down. Forewarned is forearmed.
May 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm
And we can all use more arms!
May 3, 2011 at 5:41 am
Silver Octopus Arms!
May 2, 2011 at 2:46 pm
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… As soon as there is a viable, visible place I can start another store front, I’ll leave Etsy.
Unfortunately at the moment they are the 800 lb Gorilla in the craft world.
If we can’t create a viable alternative there has to be some way we can get some accountability out of them.
May 2, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Regretsy needs a marketplace and instead of a huge cut like Etsy, perhaps a half a percent towards the donation fund or something? We have such talented and angry people here… I’d love to buy towards a good cause for a change.
May 2, 2011 at 3:08 pm
I think Regretsy Marketplace sounds like a great idea xD
May 2, 2011 at 3:47 pm
I like this idea, and I would be happy to have the same percentage of a cut etsy takes go to charities and a desperate artisan fund. like half goes to the charity of the month, and half to a fund for when one of the community hits the skids and needs help.
May 2, 2011 at 4:06 pm
see my comment above about evenbadgers.com.
We got to talking about this on the forums, and it’s happening. people just need to know that this exists and start using it for it to work.
May 2, 2011 at 4:32 pm
I tried to click join but it keeps redirecting me to the front page.. am I doing something wrong?
May 2, 2011 at 4:36 pm
The “join” link leads me nowhere though. I’m using Chrome, is this a browser specific bug?
May 2, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Where is Kim when we need her?
May 2, 2011 at 4:42 pm
Oh yeah. I think we had to close down open registration because we already had a troll try to start crap. I’ll find out where to send a message to get y’all signed up.
May 2, 2011 at 4:49 pm
I want to join, but it won’t let me?
May 2, 2011 at 4:49 pm
…derp. that posted pretty late
May 2, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Oh good, I thought it was me LOL I tried Chrome and Explorer but nothing was happening:-p Send me join info too puhleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez?:-D
May 2, 2011 at 8:18 pm
There is a new evenbadgers thread in the forums that gives info on how to set up.
http://forums.regretsy.com/topic.php?id=1626
If all else fails, ask Kim for help.
May 2, 2011 at 10:48 pm
I always hated that Etsy took a percentage and a flat fee. Twenty cents isn’t a lot, sure, but when combined with the percentage they take it, it makes it prohibitively expensive to sell small items in the $3-7 range.
In response to SmockHooker: How do you think alternatives get to be viable? If all the people who are annoyed with Etsy walked out now,
they’d be hurtingthey’d have less real artisans left to balance out their power resellers, and whatever site everyone moved to would suddenly be looking a lot more viable.May 2, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Artfire.
May 2, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Exactly this. I don’t participate on Etsy any more beyond listing shit in my shop. I don’t care about the ‘community’ because it’s all bullshit. The more I see here on Regretsy about resellers and literal rip-off artists, the more disillusioned I become. I guess I should be grateful that the stuff I sell isn’t really the sort of thing that can be easily manufactured by child labor.
However, I can’t help but notice my sales dropping. Considering I’m not doing anything different, I can only assume it’s at least in part due to people becoming disgusted with the bullshit Etsy is pulling.
May 2, 2011 at 10:51 pm
I’ve been the same way re: just slapping listings up and staying the hell away from the rest. I’m to the point where I don’t even want to have an active shop on there because I’m so tired of their crap. Now it’s just a question of whether I let my listings run their length to see if they get a sale or take them down and just live with losing the listing fees.
May 3, 2011 at 4:23 am
Try http://www.shophandmade.com, they don’t charge to list and you can designate part of your sales to go to “green” causes…
May 2, 2011 at 2:46 pm
This is really depressing. I want to say I’m giving up on Etsy, but I hate to think about all the effort I’ve already put into the shop. Maybe I’ll just stop renewing my listings when they expire, and start selling somewhere where handmade goods are appreciated.
May 2, 2011 at 2:53 pm
I know. I hate having to pay for the listing fees, and all the work that goes into taking nice photos, and coming up with the descriptions, only to have some mass-reseller undercut me with their lower prices. As a stay at home mom, I depend a little on what little income Etsy provides to help my BF pay the bills. But when the admins over there tell us honest sellers to shove it, I just don’t want to even try anymore. But where else can we sell without renting a physical store?
May 2, 2011 at 3:08 pm
I look at etsy like…going to a flea market. There’s cheap trash, there’s mass-produced stuff, there’s gorgeous things I can’t possibly afford, and then, eventually, there’s a pair of handmade earrings the (local to me) seller brings by my house because we missed each other at her studio, and I need them for a birthday party that night. And catnip toys the likes of which I can’t get at a store (a giant squid, and an Evil Dead chainsaw, complete with blood splatter felt). And spindles and hand-dyed fiber, and those eye pillow heat/cold things made with Japanese fabric with a little red riding hood print. Even a birthstone ring for my mum.
Maybe I’ve just been lucky so far, in that I haven’t had trouble finding exactly what I want, or maybe I’m just stubborn. But all of this is to say, even if you’re having problems and hating the site, take heart: there are still reasonable people out there who do use Etsy for its original purpose.
May 2, 2011 at 8:46 pm
And its not cool when Etsy treats Buyers like shit either. They do the Sellers a real disservice, when Etsy treats your customers like idiots. You can run the best Store in the world, but if Etsy turns-off Buyers with their fuckery, Buyers won’t stick around to see your awesome Shops.
Btw – I now, almost exclusively, buy only from Team AA Shops, or Sellers recommended by Team AA members. Regardless of Etsy’s heads up their asses policies, I know I’m getting the real deal when I buy from April’s Army Shops.
Club Fuckery for Lyfe!
May 2, 2011 at 9:24 pm
Don’t throw good money (or time) after bad. What you’ve done in the past is not good enough reason to keep doing it in the future.
May 2, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Hmmm… Maybe it is time for you, Rachel, to start up a real handmade storefront type place for us real handmakers (?) to sell through. I would help
May 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Is it at the point where we have to stop buying from Etsy? But, then we’re hurting the good sellers.
I posted a comment awhile back about how I went to Etsy to find a piece of jewelry for my mom. I got so frustrated sorting through “assembled” items and resellers that I ended up buying a lovely, intricate beaded bracelet from Amazon. I knew what I was buying, and where it was coming from, and I wasn’t being ripped off.
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
You are right… if people stop shopping there they would be hurting the good sellers.
It is the deception that bothers me. I buy mass-produced stuff every day (I refuse to buy handmade tampons!) but I know that is what it is when I walk into Target. When I go to Etsy I expect handmade!
May 2, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
May 2, 2011 at 3:06 pm
One thing that Regretsy did for me, that I will always be grateful for, is that I got to contact a lot of really talented sellers from Etsy. I’d never want to jeopardize their business, but they’re the sellers I tend to stick with. Or I go by shops recommended by sellers I already trust. It’s so impossible to find what you want by trying to search on Etsy’s site anyway.
It makes me feel bad in a way, because I know somewhere in that mess there are other talented sellers who should be getting attention and sales that they deserve, but Etsy has made it so impossible to actually find them.
May 2, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Only a very tiny fraction of sellers sell on Etsy – most do not sell.
May 2, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
May 2, 2011 at 4:20 pm
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
May 3, 2011 at 1:24 pm
You can “ignore this crap” because resellers don’t sell the stuff you do.
May 2, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Yes, it hurts the good sellers… But only while they stay on Etsy.
If an eco-system is hostile, people need to leave that eco-system. If the amount of traffic on Etsy drops dramatically, people will start setting up shops at competitors. This is a GOOD thing: Etsy will lose their market dominance and might start honoring their ‘handmade’ pledge instead of selling mass-produced BS.
May 2, 2011 at 6:51 pm
I really almost hope that it’s too late for them to redeem themselves. They have abused their privileged position as a forerunner and maybe they don’t deserve to BE redeemed.
May 2, 2011 at 9:19 pm
I think I have to agree with fancyskants here. I think I am going to close my Etsy account, which means that I won’t be able to flag the non-handmade stuff, but there’s so much on there that’s BS anymore that it’s just too time consuming! It’s starting to take away from my crochet time, and that suffers already b/c of my son, and I play Farmville….yeah…. I think I’m going to try out zibbet.com, as recommended to me by another user here. I’m just going to stop going to Etsy, cold turkey. Hopefully I’m not the only one, and together we can affect the amount of traffic their site gets, and put a negative dent in their empire of “vintage scrap-punk” BS!
May 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Hehehe.. Not Rachel, but Helen. ugh.
May 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm
I wonder what would happen if i were to set up a store selling children into slavery? I’d be NICE about.
May 2, 2011 at 2:59 pm
Well, as long as the children had been breastfeed I guess it would be O.K.
May 2, 2011 at 6:44 pm
No no! Breastfed AND uncircumsized!
May 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm
This drives me insane and I don’t know what to do about it. Artfire sucks, and there’s no way I’d get traffic to my own site, but I’m getting so frustrated supporting a community that, at the end of the day, won’t support me back.
May 2, 2011 at 3:11 pm
That’s pretty much how I feel. It’s very frustrating. I’ve gotten a few sales from Artfire but it’s not enough to compete with Etsy, and I dislike Artfire’s UI. Tried zibbet as well and (at the time) they only allowed 25 items for free accounts, that’s like… no thanks, I have more than 25 to sell, and no I can’t afford the paid account every month. I wouldn’t be trying to sell handmade if I could afford it. I think a lot of Etsy sellers are just doing this as a hobby or for kicks and don’t realize some people depend on it for a living.
May 2, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Yeah, I’ve basically tried everywhere as well and Etsy’s the only place where I can actually SELL anything! No other website gets the sheer amount of traffic that they do.
May 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm
As an Etsy seller this infuriates me! I just had a discussion about how good always trumps evil… guess I was wrong!
May 2, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Maybe it’s time to bypass Etsy and notify the manufacturers/original sellers directly. For instance, screw Etsy.. shoot an email off to the legal team of the company that made the notebooks. Might take a little more research, but they might be quite a bit more effective and getting Etsy to stop being a bunch of douchebags. Then again, the original manufacturers might not give a crap, so long as Etsy-fraud keeps buying their products.
May 2, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Good plan.
It’d also be a good idea to screencap everything in case anyone asks for evidence.
May 2, 2011 at 2:57 pm
I don’t think the original manufacturers would care as long as their crap is being bought by the resellers.
May 2, 2011 at 4:24 pm
I think that selling in a manner that violates the rules of the venue, even if they’re not enforced, would upset the manufacturer.
May 2, 2011 at 11:00 pm
You are dreaming, these are sweatshops, they don’t care.
May 2, 2011 at 8:57 pm
I have been reporting Etsy Shops to a contact in Disney’s legal department. Those guys don’t mess around. But they also don’t comment further on investigations. (Although I did get a personal Thank You email after I turned in a FIFTH Shop selling Disney images, after I reported them to Etsy with no result.)
I have friends on Disney’s payroll, and I can’t stand it when their stuff gets ripped off.
As far as the Chinese manufacturers and wholesalers, they don’t care who buys it, or what they do with it once it leaves their hands. Getting paid is the only thing that matters.
May 2, 2011 at 9:26 pm
Oh you’re god damn right Disney’s legal doesn’t fuck around. My hubby grew up in Kissimmee FL and there used to be a day care that had all kinds of cutesy cartoon images up on the exterior walls… including a Mickey Mouse. Oh that shit did NOT stay long, once Disney’s lawyers got wind of it.
May 3, 2011 at 7:12 am
I worked for American Greetings and let me tell you, the legal team they have that does nothing but go around and look for people using AG’s trademarked property without permission are ruthless. They don’t fuck around. There was a big debate a few years ago about people who made things out of fabric with AG characters on it (Strawberry Shortcake, etc) and sold it. Technically, the crafter bought the fabric, but the license to use the character belonged to the fabric company, not the crafter. It was messy.
May 2, 2011 at 9:09 pm
Original manufacturers don’t have a say in it at all. Once a person purchases an item it is theirs to do with as they please.
May 3, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Unless someone is fraudulently advertising that they made the merchandise themselves. Then the manufacturer has a claim.
May 3, 2011 at 8:25 pm
That was before intellectual property laws got all complicated.
May 2, 2011 at 2:49 pm
I hope people will figure out etsy is the new walmart; people still give me shit for being a “snob” about not shopping there.
May 2, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Fuck those people. Anyone who judges you for refusing to use a TOTALLY OPTIONAL service that’s marketed as a place to buy handmade goods, but isn’t, is a wanker.
Actually, anyone who judges about consumer choices is a wanker. Jesus, now I’m angry on your behalf at your critics. I need more coffee.
May 2, 2011 at 8:59 pm
Have a drink instead. Go ahead, have a shot, nobody’s looking.
May 2, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Does Etsy have any posted phone numbers to contact the people who run the site? Rather than bothering with their forms or emails which they are so adept at blowing off, perhaps it would be more effective if people started phoning in their complaints.
May 2, 2011 at 3:01 pm
They’re too smart for that.
May 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Not too smart for whitepages.com reverse address look-up.
As this information is posed readily on their site, I will share it and a link to http://www.whitepages.com so as to not cause issues by posting the actual phone numbers here. So, for anyone who is interested…
Snail Mail
Etsy, Inc.
55 Washington Street, Suite 512
Brooklyn, NY 11201
U.S.A.
May 2, 2011 at 4:10 pm
I’m so ready to just show up at their offices. I’m only 2 miles away. Anyone want to start a Regretsy sit-in?
May 2, 2011 at 11:03 pm
Let’s print out all of the resellers stores and type an angry letter and send it to them. Every day!
But, they’ll prob just line the chicken cage with it for it to poop on
May 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Etsy phone #, in case you don’t already have it..
718-855-7955
Got this from an angry person in the forums. I checked it just today, it’s legit.
May 2, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Sites like this rarely have actual phone numbers to actual people who can actually do anything… because they like it that way.
May 2, 2011 at 3:16 pm
but they have a physical address. we could pick a visual symbol by which to identify ourselves and flood them with our protests. There are 70, 000 of us right?
May 2, 2011 at 3:21 pm
Like a winking smiley face?
etsy-mart
lowering standards every day
but how would they know what we were protesting?
would a mustache be going overboard?
May 2, 2011 at 3:54 pm
Rageface.
May 2, 2011 at 5:22 pm
i got a few ideas.
May 2, 2011 at 5:22 pm
ugh… my image tags didn’t work. http://twitpic.com/4sjspd
http://twitpic.com/4sjspf
May 2, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Illbilly, I thumbed you down by accident; I am so sorry!
May 2, 2011 at 3:58 pm
There are almost 80,000 on Facebook, but there are millions of readers.
May 2, 2011 at 4:40 pm
oooh I think we should organize a mail flood. If even half of us sent something I can just imagine them all trying to cry into their cups of earl grey but not being able to find them because they’re all neck high in our letters!! aahhh that image puts me in my happy place.
May 2, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Ohhhh I have been tempted on many occasions to march myself over to the etsylabs here in brooklyn and cause a fuss. This Wednesday there’s a writing workshop by Michelle Traub (the girl who writes the “Keep It Weird” posts, among other things, on the etsy blog) . . . I’m normally a very sensible and proper person, but I really want to don an I HEART REGRETSY shirt and sit myself in the front row, and then ask them in person what the hell they plan to do about resellers . . . maybe one day I’ll get up the nerve to actually do it. Then again, do you think the etsy police will ban me from walking down that particular block in Brooklyn ever again if I do that?
May 2, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Let’s do it! I’m up! Arrested for a reason at least. ha
May 2, 2011 at 4:18 pm
‘Keep it Weird’ now with 150% more stuff that isn’t weird in the least.
May 2, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Yeah, it should be retitled “Keeping It Lame”.
May 2, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Stupid Etsy. They should move the headquarters to china, to be closer their “artisans”.
May 2, 2011 at 2:49 pm
It does piss me off, too.
But I also know a lot of artists who do very well there. They don’t visit the forums and don’t care if they get on the front page, they use social media & word of mouth.
Resellers are fucked up assholes, as is Etsy admin – but it DOES give people a web presence without having to know how to run a website, or fall for those mega-interest “accept credit cards for your site” online ‘banks’.
I feel bad for Rune Leather; hope all the publicity from Regretsy turns into cash for them.
May 2, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Runeleather has another shop with cool stuff: http://www.etsy.com/shop/awakenjournaling
May 2, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Those are lovely. My best friend is getting remarried next month and I can’t afford to get her much, but one of those would be just perfect for her.
May 2, 2011 at 2:50 pm
I propose we set up a store that cross stitches Etsy’s bullshit; “Don’t call out in the forums” with a rose border, anyone?
May 2, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Check out Voodoomaggie’s shop. She has a really cool cupcake sampler. I’d link it, but I’m not allowed to “shop” on company time, so I can’t go to etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Doris is on vacation again. Musta sold lots of journals.
May 2, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Etsy retweeted this today, and I think it sums up the level of bullshit there:
“Most of the important things have been accomplished by ppl who have kept on trying when there seemed 2 b no hope at all” D. Carnegie
Are you serious???
I’m so disgusted by them.
May 2, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Etsy is so cool and with the times with all that TXT SPK. “2 B or not 2 b, ppl?”
May 2, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Sup etsy: I do not think that quote means what you think it means.
May 2, 2011 at 6:59 pm
Dale Carnegie was a lot less literate than I had previously believed.
May 2, 2011 at 9:05 pm
This quote increased the size of the smell.
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
I’d rather be a cunt than a cheat. High five to RuneLeather.
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Thank you for this post, HK. It’s nice to see how much Etsy does NOT give a fuck. This makes me SO ANGRY. I really hope Rob Kalin is satisifed atop his hipster mountain, looking down his mustache-on-a-stick at the peons who have made him what he is.
May 2, 2011 at 3:55 pm
Unfortunately his hipster mountain is made of cash.
May 2, 2011 at 7:01 pm
I read “looking down his mustache-on-a-stick at the peons” as “at his penis”.
I think I like mine better. It explains so much wankiness.
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
This is the kind of shit that makes you wnat to go back to selling items in a booth at the mall. Why does there always have to be a contingent of asshat fucktards that come in and take over? Who do you have to blow to get some justice around here? I have a friend on Etsy that sells gorgeous, legit jewelry while she tries to pay off student loans. It’s such bullshit that her business is lost to the “Made in China” vagoos on there. Fuck them all. Fuck them in their dirty asses.
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
Fuckin Etsy-Mart
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
This Knickey bitch is about to have my foot shoved up her ass!
instead of shutting down people who craft for life why don’t you stop protecting the resellers? Etsy needs to change there name into MADE IN CHINA.
May 2, 2011 at 3:02 pm
She’s just doing her job. My only complaint with her personally is the way she spells her name.
May 2, 2011 at 3:51 pm
I really think the username is enough to merit administering foot to ass. Just like that saluting avatar is for another admin. FFS.
May 2, 2011 at 4:50 pm
You mean “heymichelle”? Her salute is so ironic because she doesn’t actually respect us.
May 2, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Yes, that’s the one. Though Helen’s Salute makes it bearable.
May 2, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Helen makes a lot of the shit on Etsy bearable. Just.
May 2, 2011 at 6:13 pm
It just makes me think of knickers every time I see it. She mustn’t have had fun in school with that:
“Hey, Undies!”
May 2, 2011 at 8:49 pm
Yes, she’s just doing her job, but nobody forced her to take that job, and no one is forcing her to stay.
May 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm
We should all start reselling shit on etsy and they would have to shut everyone down.
May 2, 2011 at 9:29 pm
80,000 wrongs don’t make a right.
May 2, 2011 at 2:53 pm
HK, would you be able to call out resellers in one of your HuffPo articles? Or would Etsy be able to have some sort of legal ramifications if you were to do so?
It seems like most of us know what to look for, but maybe through that venue you could reach out to those that can’t spot a reseller easily.
May 2, 2011 at 2:57 pm
I realize this was about Etsy not doing anything about the resellers, but if they don’t get business they might move elsewhere. *shrug*
May 2, 2011 at 9:10 pm
This is why we need someone to take this to the Daily Show. Like Etsy is going to shut down John Stewart?
May 3, 2011 at 9:41 am
That’s what I was getting at.
HK has done a great job at calling out here on Regretsy, but it only reaches a limited number of people that will flag the item/shop (or at least from what I’ve noticed while lurking).
I just think that what is being done now is well within Etsy’s control. Their failure to adhere to their own “rules” needs to be made known to those who don’t follow this site, because right now it seems a little too preaching-to-the-choir-y. :/
May 2, 2011 at 2:54 pm
They have a “shoot the messenger” mentality. Apparently, everything is seashells and balloons and special snowflakes at Etsy until somebody complains. Solution? “Eh….I’m too busy with my soy latte peterframptonschinos and biscotti. I’ll just squash the whistle blower. Problem solved.”
May 2, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Posts like these make me happy that I no longer sell on Etsy and have found a happy home on Artfire:)
May 2, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Totally agree – Artfire is the way to go for the real stuff!
May 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Artfire’s feedback system is ridiculous though. It is anonymous and seller cannot always leave feedback. I had a seller give me 2 tens for my product and service but a 5 for cooperation? Cooperation? Noone has asked me to do anything that I haven’t followed through with. Because the system is anonymous, I have no idea who did this.
May 2, 2011 at 3:07 pm
should have said “I had a buyer…”
May 2, 2011 at 10:27 pm
I noticed it being a bit glitchy when I was giving someone feedback and kept wanting to stick to any other number than the one I pressed. But I don’t know if that’s your case.
May 2, 2011 at 5:23 pm
I sell on both etsy and artfire and I wouldn’t put artfire up on a pedestal, they are both a haven for resellers. They want to open up the site to resellers, but are just trying to figure out how to do it
http://www.artfire.com/modules.php?name=forums&op=view_topic&tid=24283
I guess at least artfire is being up front about it though.
May 2, 2011 at 10:30 pm
I get a “You do not have permission to view this category!” message there. What’s the summary?
May 2, 2011 at 3:32 pm
Yup. Plus I can actually buy the stuff that’s for sale there. (I’m blocked from having an Etsy account unless I make the effort to create another email account to keep track of.)
May 2, 2011 at 2:56 pm
The only reason I have an Etsy account is to report these bullshit sellers. What a fucking waste of time though, as Etsy obviously <3's these resellers.
May 2, 2011 at 3:00 pm
I tried to create an account JUST for reporting resellers, b/c I didn’t want my shop shut down for being a whistleblower. I even created a separate email address for that account.
I tried using the username “Michellereseller”, but it said that my email address already had an account. HUH? That’s not even possible! I had JUST created and confirmed that email account!
May 2, 2011 at 3:02 pm
hmm suspicious
May 2, 2011 at 3:11 pm
If you used the same computer to create both accounts, then they are probably tracking the IP address the request is coming from. It recognizes your computer’s IP and says “Oh, you already got one!”
May 2, 2011 at 3:24 pm
The same user can have as many Etsy accounts as they want; they wouldn’t block you because of IP recognition (unless you got yourself banned from the site entirely).
May 2, 2011 at 3:46 pm
That’s not likely. Tracking or authenticating accounts by IP address would prevent two people in the same household from having separate accounts, and introduce new levels of complexity allowing the same reseller to log in from a home computer, a work computer, and a cell phone. Additionally, it could arguably be seen as a violation of privacy to track or store that information.
It’s likelier that their account creation routine blocks creation of accounts for email addresses containing certain words, and lies about why to prevent people from looking for loopholes.
I was once prevented from creating an email account called “spamtrap@domain.com” because my ISP automatically refused to create accounts with the word “spam” in it, to discourage spammers. Once I knew that, I created “mapstrap@domain.com” instead.
(And yes, it’s dumb to refuse to allow accounts with “spam” or “reseller” in the name on the premise that doing so will discourage spammers and resellers.)
May 2, 2011 at 3:49 pm
There’s also the fact that most ISPs assign IP addresses dynamically, meaning your IP address tomorrow might not be the same as it is today. This plays into what I said above in too many ways to get into.
May 2, 2011 at 3:59 pm
And it was different computers.
May 2, 2011 at 9:12 pm
Just like a pimp <3's his 'hos. Its all about the money.
May 2, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Has anyone said anything to the Better Business Bureau about etsy? Would there be anything they’d even be able to do? I mean, this is clearly evidence that they’re not enforcing their business policies.
May 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Not a bad idea, not a bad idea at all… Here’s a link to the BBB’s complaint system:
https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx
May 2, 2011 at 3:33 pm
I filed a complaint. Whether or not it DOES anything, who knows. But perhaps if enough people do, it will put them on notice.
May 2, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Me too!
May 2, 2011 at 3:41 pm
The BBB that will handle your complaint is:
BBB of Metropolitan New York
(New York, NY)
30 East 33rd Street 12th Floor
New York, NY 10016
Phone: (212)533-6200
Fax: (212)477-4912
Email: Inquiry@newyork.bbb.org
Web: http://www.newyork.bbb.org
You may wish to copy or print this information for further reference.
All correspondence about your complaint will come from and should be addressed to this BBB.
May 2, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Thanks!
May 2, 2011 at 4:14 pm
The BBB is worthless, if the company pays them the “premium fee” they can have the highest rating and their complaints get dismissed. Found out that one the hard way.
May 2, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Oh, that’s gross. May I ask what happened?
May 2, 2011 at 4:20 pm
I hate to tell you this, but the Better Business Bureau’s moral compass may be even worse than Etsy’s at this time. It seems a BBB rating doesn’t mean anything anymore. There are many businesses that have ripped off consumers left and right and still maintain an “A”, presumably because they bought a BBB membership. Here’s a New York Times article about all this:
Better Business Bureau Ratings Questioned
The company featured in the article had an A+ with more than 300 complaints.
May 2, 2011 at 6:09 pm
I almost wrote something about how it’d be worth it anyway to make Etsy pay, but they’d just share the wealth by nickel-and-dimeing their BBB membership out of their sellers.
May 2, 2011 at 7:13 pm
That’s just freaking depressing.
May 2, 2011 at 8:11 pm
The BBB is a voluntary system that has no real power. Since they operate in NY, try the NY Attorney General or the FTC.
May 2, 2011 at 2:59 pm
etsy is such a joke. i was so happy to finally distance myself from them and all of their stupid shit by starting my own website, and i just feel sorry for all of the sellers who have to deal with etsy’s crap day in and day out (like one of my best friends who truly makes her items but was emailed by etsy saying she needs to send them a detailed description of how she prices her items because they may close her shop).
May 2, 2011 at 3:38 pm
What?! Are they insinuate she will be shut down for not selling as much as the resellers around her?
If it is that sucks unique steampunk vintage octopus balls.
May 2, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Seriously? After the five- and six-figure price tags we’ve seen on paintings, they’re demanding that she justify her pricing? Seems like if “three times the price of canvas and paint plus however many tens of thousands I think my creativity is worth” applies to one, it should apply to all.
Ah! I just tried to use the word “should” in relation to Esty. I see my error.
May 2, 2011 at 4:20 pm
i’m not kidding at all! for example, she has a pair of earrings with chains and charms for $18. if they are demanding she give an explanation for those, they should really just shut the whole site down because she is NOT ripping anyone off. they’ve lost their freakin minds.
May 2, 2011 at 4:32 pm
That’s amazing when I’ve seen many people selling those stupid “vintage-look” plastic flowers glued to bobby pins for $15 for three. In fact, $12-$15 seems to be the standard price for three. It’s @#$% bobby pins with a tiny plastic trinket glued to it! It looks like it came from a sale at the dollar store!
May 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm
I just read here about the same kind of thing happening–a seller reports that she was told to provide Etsy with step-by-step crafting photos and got in response: “We’ve looked over the material you submitted, but unfortunately this did not confirm the items in your shop are handmade by you. I’m very sorry but this is not enough information to show us that you are hand making each of your items.”
So it looks like they do enforce their rules. They might enforce them to shut down the legitimate crafters they were meant to protect, but who’s perfect? After you’ve been working hard for a whole 15 minutes retweeting your coworkers and taking instagrams of your reflection in your coffee mug, you get really cranky and need to take a cupcake break.
May 2, 2011 at 9:16 pm
As I found out for myself, they selectively enforce their rules. In the most sloppy, illogical way possible.
May 2, 2011 at 3:00 pm
Time for The Regretsy Marketplace: For crafters who regret posting on Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 9:17 pm
We’re already working on it: http://www.evenbadgers.com
May 2, 2011 at 3:01 pm
Reminds me of all the sari sellers on Etsy. I post photos from the sites in India selling the saris with same models and nothing happens. If the shop is shut down, another opens under a different name.
May 2, 2011 at 4:13 pm
I know stores here in AZ that resell goods from Egypt and India; they’re usually related in some way to the people that are exporting them. With any luck, the Etsy resellers are, too.
May 2, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I bought an “oops” journal from Awaken Journaling last week (Rune Leather’s other shop) after seeing the original post. Congrats to Rune Leather for calling out anyway, and hopefully other people will see these posts and bring more traffic to their two shops.
Eagerly awaiting my journal. Someone should get Rune Leather to become part of the Regretsy community (if they aren’t already).
Frankly, the whole ‘muting’ thing reminds me of… i don’t know, dictatorship bullshit. The only time I could see it being remotely acceptable to mute someone in the forums is if they repeatedly post racial slurs or other legitimately offensive material that doesn’t contribute to a conversation.
May 2, 2011 at 3:43 pm
Rune Leather is a member!
May 2, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Oh, in that case, HI!
May 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Ehtsy or Chinetsy… either one is a more descriptive name
May 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Sent off a sh!tty but polite mail to Etsy asking them why they encouraged resellers. Not that it’ll do much, I fear, but it’s a complaint all the same.
May 2, 2011 at 3:04 pm
It’s always the whistle blowers who get fucked and the scammers who get over… I do wish it would come to an end cause I’ve been a whistle blower and lost a job over it many years ago while the scumbag I blew the whistle on didn’t even get a slap on the hand… If big corporations like Citicorp don’t give a shit, we can’t expect any different from shit holes like Etsy unfortunately. It’s like everything else on this planet – you have to know prices and product and hope you’re not being scammed.
May 2, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Damn, that closing line is exactly what it’s all about. I sell maybe, if I’m lucky, one item every other month. Forced to price your work cheaply in order to compete with the resellers and undercutters that don’t value their work, earning far less than minimum wage. That’s the Etsy dream, right there. Pennies an hour.
May 2, 2011 at 3:05 pm
It begins to seem to me that the artists making handmade items are functioning as a beard for Etsy at this point. I wonder what the advantage is for Etsy and the Chinese resellers for them to sell on Etsy? Less import fees maybe? Or less oversight on safety/health issues?
May 2, 2011 at 3:05 pm
I’ve decided I’d rather give my stuff away than open an Etsy account. They are just too damned full of themselves. Can’t call out a reseller? Muted if you do? If you can’t play nice, take your glue gun and go home? Gimme a freakin’ break!
May 2, 2011 at 3:06 pm
Meylah.com is in beta and has invited anyone who wants to try it to open a store there. I haven’t tried it yet but I think I may head on over there after this etsy bullshit. I “like” Meylah on FB and they always post great tips for marketing your crafts. I even asked for advice once and got great suggestions, practically instantly, from them. Wouldn’t it be great if we all left etsy en masse for greener pastures? That would knock a few of the sprinkles off their cupcakes!
May 2, 2011 at 3:12 pm
I just popped over for a quick peek. I may have to try that site out. Thanks for sharing!
May 2, 2011 at 4:09 pm
where is the search on that site?
May 2, 2011 at 6:22 pm
I asked that too, and they say: “Meylah’s search feature will be launching next week along with our new marketplace!”
May 2, 2011 at 3:09 pm
I *used* to have a shop on Etsy. After seeing crap like this time after time after time, I finally let my products expire and refused to pay my balance. I’m not giving them any more of my time or money.
If anyone gets a wild hare up their butt and wants to look into starting an Etsy alternative, I’m all in.
Oh, and if you want another amazing seller, I’ve bought a couple of snuggly gems from Greenie Marie:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/greeniemarie?ref=seller_info
She just recently added wall art, which I haven’t yet tried, but her dolls are ADORABLE! And if you ask nicely, she’ll make you a really nice certificate to go with your doll if you’d like. I got a bear and a “certificate of authenticity” for my niece, and she LOVED it.
May 2, 2011 at 7:21 pm
i too refused to pay them the 3 dollars i owed them!
May 2, 2011 at 3:09 pm
I’m really glad I left etsy long before I knew of all this total bullshittery. I would be super pissed the hell off if I had stayed and then found out.
May 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm
First, what the hell is it with the banal term “calling out?” Is knickey a 2nd grade teacher? Reporting fraud isn’t on a par with name calling or talking in class.
Second, little Miss Handmade Bajingo ASKED for people’s opinions and even said “any suggestions will be appreciated.” HER words, her request and RuneLeather gets sent to the principal? Someone send knickey the marine penis – she needs to relax.
May 2, 2011 at 3:43 pm
Yeah, it’s weird. It reminds me of “No one likes a tattletale!”.
May 2, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Not even if that tattletale is tattling on little Bobby for chewing on razorblades.
I never understood the whole ‘no tattling’ bullshit. Really? You really want to teach your kids not to inform authorities when they see someone doing something wrong?
May 2, 2011 at 5:35 pm
No kidding. I can understand not being thrilled with kids who tattle just to get other kids in trouble, but informing adults (or other authorities) that someone is doing something dangerous is common sense and should be encouraged.
But then, I support whistleblower protection laws, too, so what do I know?
May 2, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Or, let’s say, “kiss and make up”. -_-
May 2, 2011 at 6:15 pm
Yes, exactly. Doris Handmade asked for people’s advice, but she also said ‘I’m trying hard to MAKE these beautiful notebooks’. Even if they decided to look the other way regarding resellers, she’s baldfaced lying and saying that she makes them herself. I don’t see any way Etsy could justify not shutting her down. Misrepresentation is not normal, legal business practice – it’s like they’re admitting that they’re a bunch of grifters.
May 2, 2011 at 9:22 pm
How did she NOT KNOW she had already been featured on Regretsy? Wow, mighty clueless. You’d think a bullshitter scam artist such as herself would have been aware. She’s got no game. Hopefully, she will extend her vacation for forever now.
May 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm
I agree with the comment about contacting the BBB. Etsy has a physical location and they must be accountable to someone. This is blatant false advertising and they are making money because of it. It’s impossible for individuals to fairly compete with sellers of mass produced things.
May 2, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Please see mine and other’s comments about the BBB, I would say the BBB is far more worthless than Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 3:15 pm
I want to say “Shame on them for breaking their own rules and hurting someone’s income in the process”. But it’s not a new thing, is it?
Every now and then, I seriously consider listing my finished products on Etsy again. Luckily, there’s always a story like this to crop up and help me change my mind. It’s so not worth it.
May 2, 2011 at 3:16 pm
When I closed my Etsy buyer account I made a point to contact all the sellers I liked and ask them for an alternative contact for buying. Some had their own websites, some were on Misi, artfire or others, a few hand blogs, and a very few didn’t reply. That way I can carry on supporting good sellers (as and when I am not skint of course!) without passing money through Etsy.
May 3, 2011 at 6:25 am
Technically if they replied it’s against the TOS too- you’re not allowed to use etsy to make off-etsy sales. Ie, if they found you on etsy, you can’t point them elsewhere. They’ll usually have a link to a blog or fb page though, which’ll frequently have contact info or other shops.
May 3, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Really? Fuckers!
May 2, 2011 at 3:16 pm
so, is there somewhere we can inundate the powers of Etsy with complaints? Also, you now do a regular article on Huffington Post, right? Perhaps you could showcase the corruption of Etsy? This can’t possibly be over.
May 2, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Wetsy. Has a nice wet ring to it. Sounds like they’re all washed up!
May 2, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Sounds like a tagline for a diaper commercial to me. Seems about right, since Etsy is a big, fat, steaming pile…
May 2, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Registered just now to tell a true story:
Making beaded jewelry is my hobby, it’s something I’m good at and do quite frequently, but it can get expensive, so I thought I’d sell my stuff to at least make money back for supplies and to maybe get my kid a happy meal…but Etsy turned me off. Money to list, percentages taken out on top of PayPal fees, HOURS spent making listings touting that my shit was better than their shit because my shit was picked from the unique beautiful cupcake tree at midnight by the pink inspiration fairies that ride rose-shitting unicorns. No way. I just want to have someone like my stuff and make enough money to buy a frappucino without having to give up gas money. I opened a fanpage on FaceBook and opened a free online storefront, and I don’t have to worry about these irresponsible douchebag fuckrags raining on my parade.
May 2, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Has starting a fan page on FB brought you any sales? I want to try that now that I’ve decided I’m never going to sell on Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 10:59 pm
I started a fanpage because of my friends screaming OMGYOUSHOULDTOTALLYSELLYOURSTUFF, but I wasn’t really expecting too much. But the app program I’m using, payvment, is a free beta that will stay free for you if you sign up before it goes gold, and with only the paypal fees to worry about it’s a lot less money to lose. Time too, because it took me about an hour to set up everything from shipping to listings. You can also link your page to a huge online shopping mall that will get you more exposure, but I’ve made my shop only available to facebook fans right now because I’m a-skeered of too much public at once. But I made my first sale today, and it was painless and simple for both parties, which I liked. I’m selling my stuff for the enjoyment of people, not to make money, but it seems to be lucrative if you’re willing to advertise a bit.
May 3, 2011 at 12:16 am
Thanks for the tip IronicOctopus
May 2, 2011 at 5:05 pm
I’ve been reading Regretsy for quite a while now and this post was the last drop, so I made an account here. For me making jewellery is a job, so it is even more annoying to see all those resellers flooding Etsy. How can I compete when prices of metal are so high right now? I spent three years to get my jewellery degree and I cannot break through with my pieces. It was quite OK at first but now is dead silent, I just seem to relist. It is irritating to see the same sellers again and again on front page, especiallly when they had nothing to do with hand made. I am not one of those people to write ‘whimsicle’ descriptions, so maybe here’s my fault. I am not a fan of all this social networking sites stuff and I refuse to have a facebook account. Artfire doesn’t seem like a good market for my pieces (maybe I’m wrong?) so I really don’t know where to go. At the moment I am bitterly disappointed with Etsy, but kinda stuck with it.
May 2, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Oh, and I am sick and tired to see the items that they think I should like or even LOOOVE! It’s mostly the mass produced c**p and items I would not touch with 30ft pole. In my favourites I have mostly shops that sell designer gemstones, but I don’t recall that Etsy would suggest any new shops with similar products.Shame!
May 2, 2011 at 6:21 pm
Lovin’ your username! Get ‘em Granny!
May 2, 2011 at 6:49 pm
But the hedgehog can never be buggered at all!!!
May 2, 2011 at 3:18 pm
God, this is depressing, I hate the pretense of it all. There seems to be no viable option for “calling out” or reporting resellers and n0w they don’t even want people talking about it in the forums. WTH? Time for more chocolate cake and cava.
May 2, 2011 at 3:19 pm
I’m going to tweet sarcastic things @Etsy. Care to join me? Gosh, maybe we could change the world or something.
May 2, 2011 at 4:42 pm
I might not tweet so much sarcastic things as I might completely vulgar and derogatory things, with a few threats sprinkled in.
May 2, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Apparently if “Etsy believes that a user is acting inconsistently with the letter or spirit of Etsy’s policies, has engaged in improper or fraudulent activity in connection with Etsy or the actions may cause legal liability or financial loss to Etsy’s users or to Etsy.” they can take action on the account. If enough pissed off users gang together and claim that by allowing the resellers, they are experiencing financial loss, couldn’t we require them to go to arbitration in NY as per their terms of use?
May 3, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Nope, because calling out resellers causes financial loss and potential legal liability for Etsy. Trumped. But it shows you’re thinkin’.
May 2, 2011 at 3:21 pm
That is just really sad. I have found quite a few fantastic stores on etsy, and have loved all that I have bought over the last 3 years. It pretty much pisses me off that stores that are so blatantly NOT selling handmade things is allowed to continue, but someone who very nicely pointed out a reseller is banned.
Is there some way to contact the big wigs at Etsy and express our displeasure?
May 2, 2011 at 3:22 pm
I guess I will not be posting there with my seller ID. Sounds like the eBay boards…
What’s wrong with ArtFire? Everyone over there is badmouthing Etsy. Everyone on eBay bad mouths eBay.
I dont’ go to the Bonanza boards often. I can live without getting sucked into more Drama.
May 2, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Since when did we start murdering the messengers?
May 2, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Since about the time Etsy was founded.
May 2, 2011 at 3:28 pm
I sell on Etsy. And I have had a seller tossed for doing bad things. I was in the forums bitching about vintage sellers, who sell modern clothing that is “vintage inspired” – a big no-no on Etsy.
The thread included a few names of sellers that were culprits. Then eventually the thread was closed down. I guess someone ratted me out to one of the sellers named. The next morning, I woke up to a sale of over $150 (3 items) and the customer was in MI, but the email looked familiar. It was the first/last name of one of the Etsy sellers I had mentioned (I know this cause I was FB friends with her). The order was paid via money order, which was odd – and I got no response from the buyer after 5 convos. I did some investigating via Google Analytics, emailed her (she denied everything). But GA showed that the 3 items that were purchased were only viewed by 1 person living in the same town she lives in. Showed the deets to Etsy and VFG – they ripped her Etsy acct away from her.
May 2, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Nice work! Its good to see someone score a win for a change.
May 2, 2011 at 3:32 pm
http://etsy-reviews.measuredup.com/3184
http://diyfashion.about.com/b/2009/10/26/does-etsy-suck.html
http://consumerist.com/2008/02/sellers-growing-increasingly-unhappy-with-lack-of-professionalism-at-etsy.html
May 2, 2011 at 3:33 pm
Ugh. I typed a long comment, but accidently backspaced before I posted, but this was the Gist of it.
Nice is not necessarily good, and I wish the people on the etsy boards would figure that out, and figure out that a bit of nastyness is often beneficial. Not only does the willingness to be a bit nasty bring this sort of shit to light, but it allows you to stand up to people who are mistreating you.
Etsy crafters: Etsy are mistreating you. They ae the abusive partner of the crafting world. We’re being cruel to be kind in these cases.
May 2, 2011 at 5:14 pm
“Nice is different than good.”
… this is off topic, but your post reminded me of the first and only show I’ve ever seen on Broadway – Into the Woods – and now I have its music stuck in my head.
I know etsy is more or less lying to sellers and buyers by claiming to be a handmade site while looking the other way when resellers turn up, but they do give me a place to sell my stuff online that gets more traffic in one week than my facebook store page has gotten since I started it. I’m lucky that it’s fairly easy for a buyer of what I make to tell the mass-produced from the homemade. I’m very happy that April calls attention to all the half-assed work and mass-produced work she finds since I think it’s a great reminder that both etsy and some of its crafters need to do better to keep this (or return this to) a respectable place for all the good artists.
May 2, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Anyone need a job? There is a position available as an etsy Forum Moderator. (seriously) I never thought it was a paid position but I guess it makes sense.
May 2, 2011 at 8:41 pm
I would not take a job as a mod for all the gold in Swiss banks, all the factory-packed tea in China, or even sex with Nathan Fillion. For Etsy, not even all that and sex with Fillion every day for a year.
May 2, 2011 at 11:42 pm
Actually, fighting the enemy from within sounds like a good idea. I don’t doubt one would get exposed soon, but it’s worth a shot… Alas, I already have a day job
May 2, 2011 at 3:35 pm
Etsy sucks when it comes to shit like this. And customer service. And accountability. And playing favorites. And stopping resellers. And being responsible for their own actions. And making sense. And playing by the rules. And contradictions. The list goes on……
This does not suprise me but it does sadden me.
Glad I took a hike when I did!
May 2, 2011 at 11:28 pm
I’m glad I got a force “hike” last year. A glitch tripled my seller’s fees, and I reported it on the forum and was summarily muted and blocked from sending any sort of PMs to people. Only 4 months later after I had given up getting the money I shouldn’t have been charged back, it finally arrived back to me. Pretty sure I am still muted if I bother to log in, too.
May 2, 2011 at 3:35 pm
I don’t know why these shops are having a hard time not being closed down. Etsy closed my shop down after two faulty claims of patent infringement. Sucks for me.
May 2, 2011 at 3:36 pm
I meant “false”
May 2, 2011 at 4:38 pm
This happened to me as well! My own designs called copies by another seller! I even had older dates of use and was told that I could bring a counter complaint against the accusing party but it most likely would do nothing… Nice huh?
May 2, 2011 at 3:38 pm
What’s sad is that a majority of the commentators in that forum DID support RuneLeather wholeheartedly:
“Well spotted Runeleather!”
“LMAO!!!! Good one Rune!!!!”
“that was awesome…..RuneLeather!
”
“They have a lot of nerve. Thanks RuneLeather for catching this.”
“As if it’s not bad enough to open a shop like this–to then have the nerve to post in the forums crying about lack of sales.”
“I wonder why this is allowed/why shops like this aren’t closed down because I think it’s kind of unfair to the many people who really offer handmade things if Asian mass produced stuff is sold here”
“i’ve never flagged a shop before but this one’s gettin it!”
“Well done, RuneLeather!”
“*Raises Glass to RuneLeather*”
(etc etc)
Knickey ignored 9 pages worth of praise on behalf of RL. Ignoring the real artisans -who were trying to help each other- in order to protect the single fake one.
May 2, 2011 at 3:39 pm
May 2, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Can we all just tweet that @etsy like I just did? kthnx
May 2, 2011 at 4:54 pm
done and done.
May 2, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Maybe I should tweet this to @etsy. ;D
May 2, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Dear Etsy,
Get fucked. No love, me.
My RTers are really loyal, too.
May 3, 2011 at 12:01 pm
wow, that’s mesmerizing. I love you, George Takei.
May 2, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Life at the Etsy Labs.
May 2, 2011 at 5:50 pm
BOOM. Roasted.
May 2, 2011 at 3:40 pm
The thread went on for 9 pages after RuneLeather’s revelation. The idea that they’d cut off a pileon after a while doesn’t seem so off.
May 2, 2011 at 7:13 pm
Still, why punish her? She didn’t case the pileon. she answered the question. And the reseller is still breaking TOS. This is bullshit, and that’s not far off at all.
May 2, 2011 at 3:43 pm
These stores are most likely open under other names. Thx for hitting the nail on Etsy doesn’t care. That’s all it is. If Etsy shuttered resellers, they’d lose too much listings profits, period.
As for Etsy’s daily public display of disgusting retiation against sellers – what other online company does that to it’s revenue producers and gets away with it for 7 long years? Who the hell does this kind of shit to it’s customers? And stays in business?
All the facts point to the sad fact that Etsy simply should not be in business at all.
May 2, 2011 at 3:43 pm
I can see the desire to stop buying things through etsy. I totally get that. But when you dump the real crafters in with the garbage sellers, you give up on us. I get a decent amount of exposure through Etsy, 100 or so hits a day and sell a decent amount. To rebuild that base at another storefront would be very difficult. I seem to be stuck with Etsy.
Shop there wisely and carefully, talk with the artist, check out their facebook or twitter to see if they are legit. It may take a bit longer, but you will likely form a relationship with the seller and feel much better about buying from them.
Please don’t give up on the real makers out there!
May 2, 2011 at 4:15 pm
I will be posting “in progress” pics for my future items, so there’s no doubt who made them.
May 2, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Unfortunately, it’s Etsy itself that’s blocked me from being able to buy there. And they don’t let sellers refer to alternative ways to buy from them (that, and being loud in the forums, is why I was booted and blocked).
So what can I do?
May 2, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Wow, as many times as I have been booted from eBay’s forums, they still let me shop there! You go girl!!!
May 2, 2011 at 10:25 pm
wow… didn’t know they did that.. you must pretty be hardcore
I can see blocking people from selling, but to block them from buying? What good does that do? Who wins in that little scenario?
May 2, 2011 at 11:40 pm
Clearly it is an emotional attack on the naughty child’s psyche — “We hate you so much, we’re not going to let you spend money! Ptwooy on you!”
May 4, 2011 at 12:05 am
Yeah, it never made sense to me, either. But then, a lot about Etsy doesn’t!
May 2, 2011 at 9:36 pm
How do you insure you’re buying from, and supporting real artists? BUY FROM TEAM APRIL’S ARMY! ‘Nuf said.
May 2, 2011 at 3:49 pm
They’re regulars in the forums that are getting perma-banned left and right. The goal is, is to get the whistle blowers out of the main forums. Etsy’s team forums is where they want all the “troublemakers” to go. They want to keep the main forums “clean.” Clean meaning shutting up hard working crafters voicing their opinions so the new comers (some of them being re-sellers) can violate the TOU without interruption.
May 2, 2011 at 3:54 pm
Knickey, just lose that number
You don’t want to call nobody out…
May 2, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Any comments posted in the forums OR teams are subject to censorship and direct retailiation from Etsy. Any contact with Etsy by email or phone will lead to further scrutiny and future punishment. Etsy has a hit list. You get on it, you never get off until they put YOU out of business.
May 2, 2011 at 6:15 pm
This is so true it isn’t even funny.
May 2, 2011 at 3:59 pm
This
Fucking
SUCKS.
Maybe we should all start adding items that say “Team RuneLeather” to our shops.
May 2, 2011 at 4:01 pm
A friend and I were discussing stuff like this yesterday, and he had an interesting comment.
If Etsy is knowingly letting resellers violate the terms of service, and by doing so is bringing down the sales of members who are following them, is this a basis for a class-action law suit?
I’m not a lawyer, and don’t play one in real life, so I don’t know, but maybe someone out there might. It might take something like this to knock the granola-munchers down a peg.
May 2, 2011 at 6:35 pm
Hmmmm, I was thinking the exact same thing. I know a hotshot Harvard law-monkey in NYC. Lemme see what she says!
May 2, 2011 at 4:13 pm
That does it for me. I’m closing my etsy shop and heading over to evenbadgers.com.
May 2, 2011 at 6:20 pm
When I click on “join now”, nothing happens.
When I try to enter my wordpress login and password, it says “ERROR: Invalid username. Lost your password?”
Help me join. Thanks.
May 2, 2011 at 9:39 pm
Go to the Regretsy Forum and find the evenbadgers Thread. They had to close the open door because of a Troll. It will give you the info to join.
May 3, 2011 at 6:47 am
Can’t find it anywhere
Etsy’s discussion search SUCKS.
May 3, 2011 at 7:04 am
Oh I’m a dope. I was looking on the April’s Army forums. Thllerp.
May 2, 2011 at 4:25 pm
It makes me so sad to see Etsy do nothing time after time. Silly Etsy admins think it is great to take the $ from resellers BUT in reality it HURTS Etsy. People are now afraid to purchase from Etsy in fear they are being ripped off by resellers.
May 2, 2011 at 4:30 pm
At this point I only buy from Etsy sellers I know personlly, are recommended by people I know personally, or have been featured on Regretsy. Which is sad because there are probably so many sellers out there that I am missing because I’m scared to buy from people I don’t know or don’t have a recommendation from. I don’t like getting ripped off. That’s what Ebay is for.
May 2, 2011 at 4:36 pm
Ripped off on eBay? I thought eBay did a pretty good job of policing their sellers.
May 2, 2011 at 5:12 pm
eBay is letting scumbag SNAD-ing buyers rip off their sellers right & left. They are burying your listings where the sun don’t shine. They are overriding any terms of sale you thought you had with theirs, and they are now charging their outrageous FVF’s on your shipping costs as well as the item price.
LMAO, I just got thrown off their forums yet again for speaking the truth. They didn’t send me a note, just won’t let me see the chat forums while I’m logged in.
With that account. I got a few more… just a few!
May 2, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Dear carpecrappie, I hope you will take the time to educate me. I once sold a set of books on ebay that my son had outgrown, but other than that I have never sold anything else. Before I list and get suckered or ripped off please explain to me what you are referring to you in your post. I am not familiar with the acronyms that you are using so I cannot follow what you are saying. What is SNAD? Are you saying that the Ebay search algorithm puts some sellers items at a disadvantage? How do they override the terms of sale? What is an FVF? I hope you will have the patience to explain all of this and I hope it will help other Regretsy folks who may want to sell their handmade items. The more I hear the more I wish we could have a safe Regretsy shop for honest artists.
May 2, 2011 at 10:43 pm
Dear Mountainview, I googled a few of the terms in carpecrappie’s post ’cause I was curious. SNAD apparently means “Significantly not as described” and is a way for a buyer to completely screw a seller by claiming that the item was as such and getting their money back plus, I think, keeping the item by sending an empty box back. The seller apparently has no recourse because of the way PayPal’s policies apply to eBay so if they sign for that empty package, they just gave the buyer all the proof they needed to claim that it was returned. Bam, instant scam.
FVF stands for Final Value Fee which is the percentage they shave off of every sale you make. It never applied to shipping charges, but now it does.
I don’t know about the other stuff, though. Hope that helps!
May 2, 2011 at 4:31 pm
So disheartening. I was laid off from my corporate job and have been gearing up to sell handmade. I figured I would start with an Etsy shop, but how can I survive competing with sellers who pay their people pennies a day to mass produce items to resell on Etsy? Maybe I should forget Etsy and just try my luck selling on ebay.
May 2, 2011 at 8:25 pm
It really depends on what you sell. What do you make?
May 3, 2011 at 7:02 am
I make silver and gemstone jewelry. After my company outsourced my job of 32 years to India and laid me off I took some jewelry making classes, assembled the tools and supplies, and got my house ready to list for sale. The realtor comes today. I have made a few pieces. I wear some and have given some as gifts and they were well received. I didn’t foresee all of these issues with using Etsy and eBay to market my pieces. A year or two ago my daughter had shown me Etsy and I bought a few handmade jewelry pieces and thought, gee, I could make some of these. Then my company laid me off and I thought well here is my opportunity to give it a try.
May 2, 2011 at 4:33 pm
This is my first time posting… but I’m a long time reader. My Etsy shop was forced to remove a product because another seller said I stole her idea. She had “copyrighted” the basic shape of an elephant and mine was too close to hers. I called BS but was still forced to take down my design. I subsequently held a Free Elephant Pattern Day and gave away hundreds of the offending elephant shape to my blog readers.
It angers me that someone can get away with crap like this and not be threatened in the manner that I was with personal allegations and the removal of items.
I’ve got some really cute hearts I might put up… but someone might have already designed and “copyrighted” the heart. <3
May 2, 2011 at 4:39 pm
I do hope RobWhite steps in to this discussion with his usual mastery! http://www.etsy.com/teams/7714/ideas/discuss/7548881/page/1/?post_id=74444762
May 2, 2011 at 6:22 pm
Yeah, I am still laughing about my post on page 3 asking “what’s Regretsy?” LOL!!
May 2, 2011 at 9:43 pm
That made me throw up just a little.
May 2, 2011 at 4:39 pm
As some mentioned earlier in the comments, I would also love to see a Regretsy Marketplace. I love to make little girl gift sets (usually jewelry) and give them away as gifts, and have been told numerous times I should sell on Etsy… but I refuse.
If I were going to sell these gift sets, I would much rather a portion go to a good cause than a bunch of money grubbing lying bastards, as Etsy has so many times, proven to be.
May 2, 2011 at 4:43 pm
They might as well take the “flag this seller” button away if they aren’t going to enforce any rules at all.
As much as it is discouraging to find this kind of behavior I feel like the number of honest artists on Etsy make it a worthwhile place. Getting noticed on Etsy has given me a good start on becoming a full time professional artist. And has become a significant percentage of my starving artist income.
May 2, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Thank you for your encouraging post. I am sure there are many honest crafters out on Etsy and I intend to join their ranks as soon as I build up my inventory.
May 2, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Etsy really wasn’t quite as bad when I joined as a buyer. I eventually opened my own shop there because I liked that when I flagged items or shops that violated TOS, something actually happened.
But then, I have to remember it’s been over two years since my shop opened – And I knew Etsy was going downhill when I went from selling one or two pieces a week to selling maybe one every three months. Advertising and word of mouth doesn’t help much when people are making the same kind of thing for pennies.
I’ve never claimed to be the greatest crafter. Sure, sometimes I make neat things that I heat, hammer, and solder myself. That’s at my best. But sometimes I just want a pair of brass filigree earrings, and the filigrees only come in 12-packs, and sticking beads on something is easy and relaxing. Still seems like I should be able to sell the others for $4, though.
Whatever. This is the last straw, for me.
I’m done with Etsy. Time to see what ArtFire is like.
May 2, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Usually I try to be witty, but all I can write is – Etsy, you suck.
Rune Leather, get on Artfire or anywhere, drop me a line at my blog and I’ll buy something from you. In nice hard Aussie dollars!
May 2, 2011 at 4:56 pm
This is one reason I closed me Etsy shop. I couldn’t stand the thought of staying on etsy any longer because of people like this.
May 2, 2011 at 5:05 pm
I just wanted to say, I’m very thankful for April for creating Regretsy, and warning us about what a bad place Etsy is. I’ve been looking for a good site to sell my sculptures, and I was going to open a shop on Etsy, but after reading this, there’s no way I’m going to consider it now.
Even though my stuff is fine art and not crafts, and is unique enough that I don’t have to worry about competing with resellers, I cannot justify supporting a business like Etsy that treats it’s patrons in such a manner.
May 2, 2011 at 5:08 pm
This is so ridiculous… “Don’t call out frauds in the forums!” “Shit rainbows because you’re so happy resellers are ripping of people wanting to support handmade & taking your business!”
Puh-lease.
Although I like to browse Etsy, if I find something or someone I like I ALWAYS check to see if they sell elsewhere or have a blog I can contact them at; buying directly from the maker feels less like a trip to the mall & more like a genuine handmade purchase, if Etsy won’t protect their sellers, then they should protect themselves by shutting up shop & moving on. I doubt anybody makes so much from their store that finding another option is totally unreasonable; and if they do then they are probably mass producing or reselling goods anyway – handmade just isn’t quick enough or soulless enough to generate the big bucks fast.
Slow & steady golf clap to April for continually highlighting Etsy’s own fuckery, but she can only do so much.
May 2, 2011 at 5:14 pm
I’d love to buy one of those journals, but… not on Etsy. :-p
May 2, 2011 at 5:16 pm
So far my ArtFire traffic is only about a third of my Etsy traffic. It’s a matter of getting the site known.
Apparently there are many unhappy with ArtFire as well. I don’t have any solutions for anyone other than to have a caring management team who wants to protect their brand.
May 2, 2011 at 5:19 pm
Sometimes you have to call upon the Goddess Kathy Griffin:
May 2, 2011 at 5:35 pm
This is why I stopped selling my stuff on Etsy. I think I made maybe four sales, but I spent at least three times what I made listing things and re-listing and paying paypal fees, even if I adjusted to cover them. Trying to talk to them is like shouting into an empty room.
I’m sorry to hear that RuneLeather is getting punished for pointing out the truth. It’s unfortunate that Etsy chooses to remain ignorant of the amount of Etsy sellers/buyers who are unhappy about their violations of their own TOU. This whole attitude is going to bite them in the ass at some point, and they’ll just be left holding their mustaches on sticks at a loss about how it happened.
May 2, 2011 at 5:39 pm
I think we should just mass message the shit out of that admin twat Nickey.
May 2, 2011 at 11:45 pm
It’s Knicky or something. The K makes it even more twat-like.
May 2, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Dear Etsy:
That is all.
In other news: I feel the urge to buy stuff from RuneLeather off-etsy, and I also feel the urge to tell others to do the same.
Lanus
May 2, 2011 at 5:40 pm
All that matters to Etsy is that they’re making money off the re-sellers :U I’m sure they would be much quicker to close them down if they weren’t profitable.
May 2, 2011 at 5:43 pm
How fucking pathetic is Etsy? The supposed bastion of HANDFUCKINGMADE!!! They punish an ARTIST, Yes! Rune Leather is an ARTIST, for a piece of shit re-seller!!! WTF!?!
May 2, 2011 at 6:32 pm
That is awful. I loved Rune and what Rune did on that thread…that was some major awesome…Rune is not the only artist they have “punished”.
May 2, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Something I especially enjoy about posts like this is going to the etsy forums and participating in the “bash etsy” threads that always, always follow.
May 2, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Would anyone be up for doing an alternative-to-etsy post? I’m sick of their crap but I don’t know much about the other shop sites and how well they work/how much traffic they get :-/
May 2, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Let’s resell our used tampons!
May 2, 2011 at 6:07 pm
If you market them in a suitably gothic way as vampire teabags it might just work. Stick some glitter on them and wait for the next Twilight release.
May 2, 2011 at 7:27 pm
No, no. Not “used,” repurposed. It would be even better if the tampons are organic.
May 2, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Hey, Runeleather here. Thank you all so much for your amazing support…. I’ve gotten many nice convos and I really appreciate it. I was incredibly shocked that Etsy has punished me like this.
Some of you have expressed interest in buying from me off-Etsy.
My main website is
http://awakenjournaling.com
If you send me a private email through my website to runeleather@gmail.com or awakenjournaling@gmail.com then I could sell to you through there.
I want to make sure I am 100% in compliance with Etsy’s rules regarding “fee avoidance”, so please do not send me convos on Etsy asking to arrange purchases off Etsy. My shops pay my bills so getting into further trouble with Etsy is the last thing I need!
May 2, 2011 at 6:04 pm
While the views & sales I’ve gotten from this post are amazing, please don’t feel you need to purchase from me to support me! (but I am fund raising for Relay for Life if anyone wants to donate….
)
I feel I responded to a reseller like any other sane Etsy seller would have. I’m just amazed that instead of being thanked for basically doing their job for them, the admins muted me. I am still not sure what rules I violated, because I never “called out” anyone, I just gave feedback to a shop that ASKED for a critique….
May 2, 2011 at 6:06 pm
The All-Seeing-Cupcake may have muted you (as though you were a television or overly bright colour) but I think we’re all a little in love with you now.
May 3, 2011 at 2:08 am
I think donating to Relay for Life to support you is a great idea. Your stuff is lovely, but unfortunately not for me. (I try to remain vegan in my clothing, even if my body makes it impractical to remain vegan in my food choices.)
And it’s just refreshing to see sanity around the Etsy forums.
May 2, 2011 at 6:35 pm
I’m going to pimp your site around. You deserve the business.
May 2, 2011 at 8:40 pm
Magnificent.
Thanks for sharing your site link. As soon as I have some spare cash to my name, you will definitely be getting business from me.
May 2, 2011 at 6:04 pm
There is something so darkly disturbing about constantly being told ‘not to call out’.
‘Has a reseller just blatantly flapped their mass-made cock in your face? Don’t call out!
Are your morals being bent over the crafting table and fucked sideways? Don’t call out!
We don’t care if our own Codes of Conduct are being flagrantly abused and molested. Just don’t call out, that’s a good girl, it’ll be our little secret.’
May 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm
When you put it that way it is deeply disturbing. o_o
May 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm
I’m going to have to warn my friend who started preparing to open a shop at Etsy. If we’re going to pay fees, we should at least be paying it to a site that has integrity.
May 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm
check out lisajune’s latest fantasy-definition of calling out. she’s a riot. Now somebody please find another job for her to do and get her out of the forums….please!
May 2, 2011 at 6:09 pm
There is a live animal for sale on etsy right now! Bettas are my passion, you wouldn’t believe the kind of pets they can really be when treated properly. They’re inquisitive, energetic, and interactive! Really, they are, no matter what the douche at the pet store says.
Would you guys help me flood etsy with flags re: this seller? Please and thanks?
http://www.etsy.com/listing/73260914/live-male-betta?ref=sr_gallery_1&ga_search_query=male+betta&ga_search_type=handmade&ga_facet=handmade
May 2, 2011 at 6:15 pm
She hand-made a live fish? So she’s God then.
That will be an interesting bit of news to break to the Christians: God’s on Etsy.
May 2, 2011 at 6:40 pm
I reported the fish listing. How hideous. As I wrote in my submitted report:
This is a live fish. This is not remotely appropriate to being listed on Etsy. Etsy is becoming a joke with listings like this.
May 2, 2011 at 8:21 pm
I typed a lovely answer to your ? above and it was eaten…
Significantly Not As Described – buyer does not like your item, never mind it’s exactly what you said. eBay tells them to return it & takes the money out of your PayPal account.
You must take PayPal unless you have an acceptable merchant account.
The buyers can leave you a “4″ which is good but eBay will kick you off if you drop below a 4.6. God forbid you should have a 1 or a 2 – you will get double secret probation, and you have to raise your DSR’s but you can because you cannot list but 6 items or so at a time.
Catch-22. I could go on & on but they kicked me off the forums with no explanation AGAIN… and I’m busy being pissed at them over there.
I have about 20 valid never used ID’s to post with there… I can make a comparable amount for Etsy if need be, but I’m trying to limit myself to one set of rabble-rousing!
May 2, 2011 at 10:12 pm
I used “Other.” “Bettas don’t live for 20 years, and I’m fairly sure she didn’t actually make him.”
May 2, 2011 at 6:48 pm
And of course, she’s selling it in a tiny bowl and provides terrible information on how to care for it.
May 2, 2011 at 8:53 pm
How about keeping the poor thing in a wine glass?
http://www.etsy.com/listing/72638866/betta-wine-glass
I feel so bad for the fish…I saw one in my local store and bought him. He now lives in a roomy 5-gallon tank. Beta fish are supposed to live in a minimum 2 gallon tank, not a cup of water. :/
May 2, 2011 at 9:21 pm
I wasn’t going to mention the wine glass. I get too pissed off.
May 2, 2011 at 8:18 pm
Oh god. My report comment was “What the flippin shit?”
May 2, 2011 at 9:57 pm
Why does it cost $50.00 to ship in the US?
May 2, 2011 at 9:59 pm
That is so wrong. Love Betas, mine eats out of my hand. This one will die in shipment without professional, USDA required, packaging for live animals.
She also doesn’t give proper care instructions. (Mentions nothing about dechlorinating the water. And her feeding instructions are wrong.)
This Listing is really pissing me off. And oh Hell yes, I reported her.
May 2, 2011 at 10:37 pm
I’ve convo’d her. Innocently asking about things like Maracin II, which she’s probably never heard of.
Can’t wait to get a response.
May 2, 2011 at 11:43 pm
Reported. And I tried to speak Cupcake, using lots of emotional language and not a shred of common sense. The latter has never gotten us anywhere.
May 3, 2011 at 2:49 am
It’s all about the tone, isn’t it? I’d bet there’s a lot of things you can say and post, provided you express them in a false-naive tone, with no hint of irony, and flame people in an apparently friendly way.
May 3, 2011 at 6:14 am
Oh my god, guys. Apparently the cupcake brigade can’t stand animal abuse as much as us. We agree on something, because they finally woke up this morning and took the listing down, no fuse. It probably helps that it wasn’t a reseller that makes them tons of money.
I also like to think that my stirring up the forums and causing trouble contributed somewhat to it. (iwannasedateme.)
May 3, 2011 at 6:14 am
Fuss. Though I suppose fuse works as well.
May 2, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Etsy is so fucked up. I might just reopen my Live Journal shop, there’s a big ring of people who run shops on journals there and go through paypal. Best part LJ doesn’t take a cut!
May 2, 2011 at 6:32 pm
I submitted this page to Stumbleupon, Digg, my Tumblr account, Facebook and Twitter. We all should. Ask people to pass it on. The more people know about this, the better. When the outrage gets big enough, they will have to do something…maybe collapse in tear in a pile of cupcake pillows? Seriously, does HuffPo know about this? CNN?
May 2, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Send it to Ina Steiner. She needs to rail against someone besides just eBay!
May 2, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Dear Carpecrappie, Thank you for your explanations of what you have experienced on ebay. It is pretty damn depressing. It explains why so many sellers include little cards with their items begging you not to leave bad feedback but to contact them first. I had no idea that ebay had the power to withdraw money from your PayPal account to refund to a disgruntled buyer. Sounds like a jungle out there. My daughter is suggesting I should look for flea markets to sell at but the idea of dragging everything and setting up and sitting and watching people paw through my work is a bit depressing as well. Sigh, sometimes it seems nothing in life is easy or even fair. I guess when I get enough pieces created I will put a few on Etsy and a few on eBay and take my chances. Hey maybe by then we will have our own friendly Regretsy store. I can dream
May 2, 2011 at 6:35 pm
Etsy thinks it is too big to fail. What do you think? Are you up for the challenge?? Want to make it happen?
May 2, 2011 at 7:19 pm
I love a bit of snark — I have a few internet persona’s that could be used.
I could twitter bomb ‘fuck you’ gif’s
Report resellers like my life depends on it?
Cuppy-cake hipster fuckers!
May 2, 2011 at 7:20 pm
I think they spent too much on their bog new shiny digs to pay the bill with out additional income, and now they are fucked. I think they backed themselves into corner. I think if the word is spread far and wide, things will have to change…and one way or another, they are going to lose money.
May 2, 2011 at 9:40 pm
I think it’s more a case of getting too big and failing because of that. There is so much
crapstuff and so many shops I couldn’t begin to imagine an efficient system to weed out the resellers. But that’s no excuse for the “don’t call people out TEE HEE” bullshit in forums.May 2, 2011 at 6:37 pm
Let me see if I have this right:
So selling on Etsy means having to put up with a site that absolutely does not give a fuck about the whole ‘handmade’ thing.
Buying from Etsy means risking having all your buyer info exposed as part of Etsy’s half-assed “social networking” bullshit.
At this point, Regretsy is as close to Etsy as I care to get.
Too bad, though. It seemed like a good idea.
May 2, 2011 at 6:51 pm
In theory, Etsy is a fantastic idea.
May 2, 2011 at 8:10 pm
If only Etsy lived up to that idea, we wouldn’t be having these issues. And knickey would be getting a kick to her name so that she wouldn’t have that obnoxious k on the front of it to make it more cupcake-y.
May 2, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Hey Etsy Admin – you are a bunch of fucking assholes.
May 2, 2011 at 6:55 pm
I didn’t see Etsy as just another capitalist fuckover 3 years ago when I was dewy eyed and so happy to have an online outlet to sell my authentically handmade goods. I’ve spent so much time, effort & MONEY over the course and over 90% of my business comes from that greedy stuck up bitch…I reported non-delivery of a supply order from a seller who misrepresented their business location aka dropshipping. She gave ME bad feedback for reporting & leaving accurate feedback to warn other potential buyers, but Etsy proved that she who sells more, WINS! Everytime I pay the fees, I feel dirty…alternatives, escape hatch, I still love what I make and “they” can’t do what they exploit! Greedy bitches
May 2, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Rob White is tweeting like crazy right now (about eggs?!). So I took a moment to tell him I really really fucking hate him.
May 2, 2011 at 7:33 pm
What’s really bad is that RuneLeather’s comment wasn’t even rude or nasty. She could have said something like “resellers like you can go fuck yourself” but instead she simply informed them of the rule, “those aren’t handmade, you cannot sell them here”.
May 2, 2011 at 7:48 pm
In some places a call-out like that wouldn’t even be considered a call-out.
May 2, 2011 at 10:30 pm
On anywhere but the north pole of Jupiter, that wouldn’t be considered a call-out.
May 2, 2011 at 7:33 pm
I signed up. now to figure out how to open a shop!
May 2, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Not on etsy, but on badger.
May 2, 2011 at 9:16 pm
All done. I’m even on the front page. Though it gives an error…
May 2, 2011 at 7:45 pm
I was the one who sent the E-Mail asking how to stop Etsy, and I thought the answer you gave was pretty insightful:
“Well, here’s the problem.
Etsy has been doing a lot of redesigning of their site recently. Many tasks you used to be able to do with relative ease have now been retooled to take even more clicks and steps. That means millions of users are clicking on millions of additional steps every day.
The end result of this enforced clickery is a falsely inflated traffic ranking. Etsy has actually shot up 10 points on Alexa, even tough they’re losing sellers and customers. It may be fewer people clicking more, but the overall effect is the same. They are worth more because of the added traffic.
So I don’t think they care, basically. I don’t think they ever will, unless you can shame them on CNN like the ‘rape cards’ fiasco a while back.”
Depressing, isn’t it?
May 2, 2011 at 9:26 pm
The only thing you can do is leave. Seriously. There’s just so much smoke one can blow up one’s ass.
One of my BEST customers now asks me to bill her directly. That should tell you something.
May 2, 2011 at 7:47 pm
I just read a forum post on etsy from a new seller who joined a week ago. She(or he) is so excited to share their art!
Poor thing.
May 2, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Ya, that’s the exact same thing I think every time I new seller hits the block.
At the time of this post there are 9,215,372 items for sale on etsy.
1.8 Million Smackaroos. And Still they refuse to advertise. And I don’t count the plugging they do to pull in more sellers.
May 2, 2011 at 10:29 pm
And even if they do advertise, there’s no guarantee that it’s your shop that will see the customers. Instead, it will be whatever the chicken picks.
That’s one of the things I hate most about the place – the way the cupcakes brainwash new sellers into talking up Etsy instead of their own, individual shops.
May 2, 2011 at 7:48 pm
Shit. I’m buying the last few things I had on my faves and I’m quitting. This is so fucking retarded I can’t stand it.
I really am speechless.
May 2, 2011 at 10:32 pm
Amen. I have one or two sellers I frequent who don’t have shopping carts or other storefronts, other than that… I’m buying up my favorites, and I’m out.
May 2, 2011 at 8:02 pm
Okay here’s what we need to do: Get a fundraising campaign going here on Regretsy to really get a lot of money together, and I mean a LOT so that April can buy Etsy and run it for us and we can finally have some fairness.
Think of how cool that would be! We could have someone at the helm with an actual brain and common sense!
May 2, 2011 at 9:33 pm
Sellers just have to leave. Cut the cord and move on.
May 2, 2011 at 8:02 pm
This makes me so very sad. There is actually so much good on Etsy, so much to love – it is beyond frustrating that all this bollucks is allowed to continue…
Did you all notice that this ‘unique’ sea creature was just on the front page?
*sigh*
May 2, 2011 at 8:27 pm
Well I suspect it won’t take long for my shop to suffer the same fate after calling out KNR to stella.. Hmmm…
May 2, 2011 at 8:55 pm
fucking resellers. they piss me off!
these two shops are resellers too – they buy wigs super cheap from China on Ebay and resell them. It’s amazing what a bit of creative photography can do. They have both been called out about it and as usual they emptied their shops for a couple of weeks and are now back to selling wigs at fucking horrendously marked up prices.
http://www.etsy.com/shop/MissDemented
http://www.etsy.com/shop/MissVioletLace
May 2, 2011 at 9:16 pm
missdemented should be more consistent with her terrible photoshopping. Either make all the photos look like a phone sex line advert or none of them.
May 2, 2011 at 9:24 pm
I wear wigs, and yea, those are some pretty janky looking rugs. It actually IS pretty cheap synthetic hair.
May 2, 2011 at 11:35 pm
Wait. Is the first shop the Exorcist girl who was on Regretsy a while back? Looks just like her.
May 2, 2011 at 9:17 pm
I received the link to this thread through a fellow friend & thought I’d just put in my two cents. I used to look at some Etsy shops & realized a lot of the top sellers (not suppliers) are really factories that front as a single seller. Just look at all the cheap leather items & inexpensive purses that most of us know should cost more. But they don’t because they are mass produced by many workers with a cute picture of a girl as the front. It’s gotten so blatant that I decided it was time for me to find another place to sell.NOT ONE OF YOU should have to compete against manufacturers, yet on a handmade venue that is exactly what you do on Etsy. I’ve stopped being a slave to the “but they get traffic” phrase, I’ve moved on to Zibbet. Yes,the views are lower, my sales are lower, but I know that I’m at a site that is dilligent about keeping mass produced items off and I show my appreciation by selling there. The Etsy Handmade market place is LONG gone and will never return.
May 2, 2011 at 9:22 pm
China ruined Ebay. Now it has ruined Etsy. Or maybe it is just the greed of the people running both Ebay and Etsy. It sickens me.
I think the solution is to create a list of legitimate Etsy sellers and circulate the list through Regretsy.
May 2, 2011 at 9:31 pm
At least ebay didn’t put themselves out there as a handmade site. I have no problem with what is sold there.
May 2, 2011 at 9:38 pm
Dear vipsania, I can see how the Chinese sweatshops have ruined Etsy by pretending to be crafters producing quality handmade items, but I don’t understand your comment about how China ruined ebay. I am guessing you mean that U.S. sellers are buying low quality items in bulk from Asia and then remarketing them at low prices showing a U.S. shop address. Is that what you mean? I am a potential seller of my handmade silver and gemstone jewelry and I am trying to understand what I am up against so I appreciate all of the information and insight being offered in this thread.
May 2, 2011 at 9:27 pm
. . .You just caused me to flounce. I totally just flounced Etsy on their Fbook page. WHAT HAVE I BECOME?
I don’t care if other people see it on their page, I just hope that THEY see it, and that they realize what douchemongers they’ve become.
May 2, 2011 at 9:36 pm
Sadly, it’s probably already been deleted.
May 2, 2011 at 9:42 pm
Yeah, but if enough people flounce, do you think they’ll get the message?
May 2, 2011 at 9:43 pm
I just checked on the Etsy FB page and there are a few comments mentioning resellers and how Etsy is protecting them. I happily ‘liked’ those comments.
May 2, 2011 at 10:04 pm
Me too!
If there was a big righteous LOVE button I’d be on that like a moustache on a brass octotard.
May 3, 2011 at 12:26 am
Wow. I had NEVER been on the Etsy facebook page.. I just did, for less than 2 minutes, and now I have a headache and feel like I need to vomit.
Everything there reads like the diary of Martha Stewart’s BFF. Holy fucking mindfuck, I’m so sorry I did that.
“Your eyes sparkle like bicycle reflectors.”
Oh yes, and one post for the question “What makes you YOU?”
“My DNA makes me a special snowflake!”
May 2, 2011 at 10:26 pm
After reading all of these Comments, it has become apparent that action needs to be taken in order for our voices to be heard, and no longer ignored.
We need to throw down a BLITZ. I am in the middle of college exams this week. Next week, I will be opening a thread on the Regretsy Forums regarding further action. Look for the title “Blitz” on the Forums early next week.
We need to make some phone lines go crazy, mailboxes overflow with letters, and cell phones crash under the the volume of tweets. Maybe some of you could take a trip to Brooklyn that day with big, posterboard signs while wearing Regretsy Thugs t-shirts.
If all 80,000+ of us worked together on this, there is no way that Etsy will be able to ignore our complaints.
Besides, its always better to talk shit, and do good. Unlike Etsy, where they talk good, and do shit.
Check the Forum Tuesday for the Blitz Thread, and find out what you can do to help.
May 2, 2011 at 10:36 pm
How do I get a Regretsy Thugs t-shirt overnighted to me? I live in a cupcakey little college town, and I could do some damage. I’m small, but I’m a loud bitch.
May 2, 2011 at 10:46 pm
Evenbadgers.com is very amazing, to have been created so quickly! I have signed up and look forward to seeing where this goes.
I’m not worried about it not getting as much traffic as fucktardcupcakeworld etsy, just the number of people who visit this site and CF makes me feel at ease.
May 2, 2011 at 11:05 pm
Reading Regretsy has made my co-designer and I (we make jewelry, and yes by that I do mean we string premade beads on premade wire, though my boyfriend’s mom has a kiln and we are going to start making our own beads) have decided NOT to sell on Etsy. Well, this and EtsyBitch. Thanks for keeping us posted!
May 2, 2011 at 11:32 pm
I don’t usually share stuff on Facebook since, let’s me honest, no one really care, but I shared this.
I mean some of you people have important connections. Isn’t there someone… Big and noticeable who’d love to expose all this bullshit?
May 2, 2011 at 11:54 pm
Well wouldn’t Regretsy be a good platform for lobbying for a change by Etsy?
I mean, if someone calls out on some reseller in EVERY thread of the forum, they would ultimately have to take action. In this case, it would matter to them, as it would be an embarassment in the contrary case.
May 3, 2011 at 12:13 am
I started to write a disgruntled letter to etsy (cause I’m badass like that, yo..), wanted to keep it all businesslike and neutral, but I failed. Didn’t go all out on them, but couldn’t quite hold back either:
I am appalled at things I hear about this website treating REAL artists and crafters when faced with calling out resellers.
I had considered the idea of selling my products through Etsy, I even loved buying from the website, but am starting to see it for what it is- just another dose of depressing, corporate capitalism, but coated in glitter and with a horrible tacky metal-stamped octupus jammed right up it’s arse..
Needless to say, I am now against the idea and will advise my friends and everyone I know against it.
May this website choke on it’s own mass-produced cupcakes (moistened with the tears of Chinese orphans).
May 3, 2011 at 12:18 am
I am so infuriated right now.
I am not looking to make tons of money. I just want to be able to fund my craft and make some people happy.
The people who I have sold to and have given me feedback have been so pleased with their purchases, and it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside to know somebody is enjoying my work.
But Etsy is honestly killing me.
I’m just about to break even with profits/listing fees… I’m not even talking supply costs.
Why? Because of all these freaking resellers. Why buy handmade things when you could buy factory-molded-and-painted bullshit? Why pay $2 shipping when you can get free economy shipping from China?
It drives me mad.
I just want to make shit out of clay and not have an empty wallet doing so. Is that so much to ask?
May 3, 2011 at 2:44 am
Not sure how much help it will do in the long run.. but after all this fuckery Im contacting a seller directly thru her blog in the hopes of purchasing her art. I don’t want etsy to get one drop of my monies.
May 3, 2011 at 2:55 am
Is anyone on here a 4chan user? I think a little sabotage is needed. Or is that more likely to hurt the real artisans?
May 3, 2011 at 4:14 am
Oh. That’s a wonderful idea.
May 3, 2011 at 4:34 am
I wholeheartedly agree.
May 3, 2011 at 5:04 am
I wouldn’t. The majority of /b/ won’t care and it’s more likely to turn on someone who tries to enlist them. ‘No one’s private army’, etc. etc.
They’d need something that would be more rage inducing for them. Homemade arts and crafts doesn’t usually do it. (Just my humble opinion. You’re welcome to try, of course! And I may be wrong. They may all secretly knit.)
May 3, 2011 at 3:23 am
This is precisely one of the reasons why I left Etsy (well, technically put my shop on vacation mode indefinitely). I am in Europe and I find that Dawanda is working well for me. There isn’t that much pressure to be all “friendly” (in the forums – especially in the German one), the moderators intervene merely when people are basically insulting each other (from what I’ve seen at least).
Now, it still has some issues, like the same people tend to get featured over and over again (in the big home page features or in the lovebook) and there are some resellers, but overall it’s more tolerable than etsy. At least the system is a little bit more democratic. I still have to find a venue (big enough at least to gather comparable traffic) that is not guilty of favoritism to some extent. It’s sad.
May 3, 2011 at 4:55 am
Shop handmade also gives you the option of including item numbers from supplies you use if they (the supplies) are sold on addicted to scrapbooking and stamping and your item is supposed to show up near the supply. Not a bad deal for free.
May 3, 2011 at 5:04 am
Has anyone seen this blog? I wish I could post a link to it on my etsy shop
One Etsy Reseller A Day
May 3, 2011 at 5:04 am
http://oneetsyreselleraday.blogspot.com/
arg, the link was there in the preview but disappeared when I posted!!!
May 3, 2011 at 5:19 am
also, this on facebook…
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pressure-on-Etsy/115473185195943?sk=wall
May 3, 2011 at 5:43 am
Ah. My fake love for you just turned into real love….right..this second.
May 3, 2011 at 6:21 am
why is there no facebook group or page for etsy sucking so hard yet?
p.s. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glitterbiscuits
May 3, 2011 at 6:25 am
Amen, sister. Here’s what Rob Kalin, Etsy CEO, said in a WSJ interview last year.
Q. With millions of members to support, you must also face criticism. How do you handle it?
A. Be honest. I’ve said in public that I feel like we’re not doing a good enough job [with customer support] right now. People, in general, are understanding when you acknowledge what your mistakes are.
Guess no one told him that honesty includes selling HANDMADE ITEMS and not CRAP FROM CHINA.
May 3, 2011 at 7:00 am
I would have gone with chokeanddieetsy.com, but evenbadgers works too.
May 3, 2011 at 8:14 am
oh lordy, i’ve just spent 2 hours putting my stuff on zibbet. i have some (expensive) advertising coming up which has the etsy shop website on it tho so i’ll have to stick with the blood suckers a bit longer. damn damn damn damn now i feel like i’ve paid to advertise their shitty site.
May 3, 2011 at 8:52 am
Aparently, you can not even discuss this on etsy forums
http://www.etsy.com/teams/7722/business-topics/discuss/7551216/page/1
so much for the freedom of speech!
May 3, 2011 at 9:37 am
Hey Michelle answers:
“We handle all cases where someone may be breaking Etsy rules privately, and we ask that people flag shops that look suspicious rather than calling it out in the forums. In any case, the first offense for forum infractions is just a warning, not being muted.”
My shop (and a second one totally unrelated) got shut down a month ago. When I asked for an explanation as to why the similar items were allowed to be sold in other shops (all handmade like mine), and gave them examples, I was basically told to kiss off. I dealt with Etsy totally through e-mails, never called out on the forums. Checking a month later, these items are still allowed to be sold by the other sellers. I’m still not sure why I was singled out. I’ve opened up at Artfire and think Etsy may have done me a favor in the long run. Their so-called rules are a complete joke. Keep up the good work, April. This post really opened my eyes and hit home with me.
May 3, 2011 at 3:32 pm
“Since we do handle cases privately, we ask for the same respect for the person who is the subject of this thread. Thank you.”
So they closed the thread out of respect for RunedLeather?!
Yeah, that doesn’t sound like bullshit at ALL.
They have the worst excuses I’ve ever seen.
May 3, 2011 at 5:09 pm
I’ve definitely learned that they make the rules up (and ignore their own rules) as they go along!
May 3, 2011 at 9:43 am
I hate these fuckers. They screw over honest artisans all the time. Then they let these resellers over run the joint with their generic shit. Last time i checked hipsters didn’t shop at walmart unless they were being ironic. Eventually Etsy will become declasse and one of these other indie venues will blow up. I pray for it every night.
May 3, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Hmmm… I just clicked on the Doris Handmade link and it doesn’t work. I also searched for Doris Handmade on Etsy and it doesn’t come up… hmmm… they deleted his/her account? I NEVER see that on Etsy with resellers. They just take down their listings or go on vacation, like April said.
May 3, 2011 at 2:03 pm
After my listings expire on Etsy I’m shutting the thing down.
In the meantime I opened a shop on Evenbadgers under the name I Am Not A Pipe. Slowly but surely we can take Etsy down heck yeah!
May 4, 2011 at 10:45 am
Knickey must die!
May 4, 2011 at 11:04 am
I emailed Etsy about this and mentioned this post. I urged Etsy to come here and peruse the comments. I informed them that there were over 500 very negative comments about them due to them not following thru with their rules. Furthermore the discussion has turned to Etsy alternatives and many have gone there and purchased. I asked them “Is that what you were going for? Convincing people to leave, buy elsewhere and encouraging others to go with them? I’m not sure how that helps your business exactly.” They sent me a reply that began “Dear Sandra…” My name is Angela. Way to make me feel valued and listened to. You can’t even get my fucking name right.
May 4, 2011 at 12:33 pm
I’m a lurker here, but I wanted to log in to post that I am now also in on the Etsy boycott due to the ongoing failure to protect real crafters. I am not a seller, so I just wanted to let those who are know that some of us buyers are paying attention, too. I hate sifting through all the crappy massmerch to try to find something interesting and unique, and I am taking my business to artfire and similar alternative sites.
May 4, 2011 at 1:40 pm
Ditto, FullyWashable! I was a total lurker until yesterday when this follow-up post pushed me over the edge. I have checked out and set up accounts with ArtFire, Zibbet and on Facebook (through Payvment). The last one was painful, because I don’t have a personal Facebook profile on principle. Looks like Etsy’s compromising principles are forcing me to compromise mine.
May 4, 2011 at 1:50 pm
I had the same experience in a forum, I started by asking what exactly is supposed to constitute Handmade on Etsy, because I had seen lots of stuff that was OBVIOUSLY not hand made at all and I then pointed out someone who was importing cheap Chinese watches saying they were hand made and the thread was immediately shut down with a very snotty comment saying it is against the rules to call out….
May 4, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Concisely put. Maybe the Wal-Mart comparison will jar enough people on Etsy to harangue them into changing policy.
If any Etsy sellers on here are ‘eco-friendly’, ‘green’, ‘sustainable’, or all those good buzzwords, they might want to check out cosaverde.com, a smaller craft site featuring actual crafters.
May 4, 2011 at 8:40 pm
I had a dream last night about a new site that was very much like etsy, yet not hypocritical and anti-artist. The bandwagon brought tons of etsy sellers and there was little trouble getting the word out. Of course this would require a ton of work and a group of people with time and skills to set it up, but couldn’t it be done? If it were done right I’d switch teams in a heartbeat.
May 15, 2011 at 11:56 pm
wow – this makes me want to take my store off of etsy…
July 1, 2011 at 6:18 pm
I just found this site last night. I found this post just now. Two weeks ago, I found someone stealing all of the generic designs and my own designs from my etsy store. Not only was she taking all of my designs, but my sister-in-law’s as well. Then I noticed that she was changing all of her titles to match ours exactly. Oh and guess what, then she changed her descriptions to my descriptions. Copy and Paste is a wonderful thing when not abused. So I called her out and asked her to please change her titles and the descriptions to her own and just keep using the designs. As most are for common use knowledge in the field of wire working anyway.
Etsy deleted my account.
Yeah, I did get upset, but I do have other stores on other sites and sadly etsy is the one that gets all the hits and sales.